NHS: Let’s get to the bottom of Lansley’s Muddle

How about getting the voice of Britain like us…To Get the Government to stop the Culling of the Badgers as this is the latest bit of Lunacy, due to imunising them instead…I’m sure it will help the farmers to respect the wildlife as they do already…we all have the right to a life even the wildlife of Britain
Regards
John J Gray

Hi
I was hopping to hear from you as heard some very worrying information from my GP which is a lot of Chnages are already going through. i have asked for written info and will get it as soon as able but just had cateract operation so might be while.
teo things I do know for sure..1) the loaclhospital audiolgy deparment in my area (wisbech, cambs)has been closed down, just like that and SPECSAVERS have got the CONTRACTfrom the GOVERMENT!! I am horried and furios. 2nd) there is a new and seperate eye dept in same hospital, it is called ACE, just found out that is praivet as well!!! isthis going on nation wide? is the public awRE? WHERE WAS THIS IN THE conservative’s MANDATE? help please I will try ans send donation later butcannot be a lot as I am a pensioner!! can’tsee to well today either lol!!
Susan C

What was the process for pre-selecting Harrison Grant and Stephen Cragg to do this job? Before donating, can it be made clear that there are no conflicts of interest, in that 38degrees as an organisation or any of the individuals of which it is comprised, have any links to these lawyers that might have had a bearing on their selection?

Many thanks,
Maxine Kelly

I am reminded of my head foreman of many years ago, when I had to ask his opininions on contracting out.Your remarks re a Minister of Health without the responsibility. The reply that I was given was-
some managers would like it, they could pass all aspects of the work to the contractor, retain thier pay without the responsibility of management in organisation of manpower, materials and time. It does not work.

I have been a faithful supporter of 38 Degrees, but I am not sure why you are not seeking help from the NHS trades unions or the BMA – they have legal departments aplenty who should be capable of identifying the hidden pitfalls of these ‘reforms’. If you’re worried about independence then think again – they should be able to see the hidden agenda- they stand to lose as much as we do. What is the point of duplicating their research?

With so many amendments it is bound to be riddled with contradictions and stupidities which can be highlighted. I’d be looking for those first!

“..immunising them..” And why NOT the cattle?

The existence of robust Due Diligence procedures are a fundamental legal responsibility for any body or business who are either selling goods or offering services to the public.In order to meet the legal requirement of Due Diligence legislation the body offering services to it’s customers (patients) must take all reasonable care to establish that any ‘willing provider’ of such services who provides treatment to patients using their services have taken all reasonable steps to ensure that the treatment they provide is SAFE,COMPLIES WITH ALL B.M.A,REGULATIONS AND ANY MEDICATION PRESCRIBED IS ‘N.I.C.E.APPROVED AND PRESCRIBED BY QUALIFIED PHARMACISTS NON EXHAUSTIVE.It must also have in place the necessary ‘checks and balances’ so  that such measures are monitored to establish compliance on an ongoing basis.
To verify that all appropriate Due Diligence measures are in place and being effectively applied by each individual ‘willing provider’ – the body responsible for placing services with any willing provider  will be responsible for carrying out formal auditing by qualified Lead Assessors who will formally report their findings back to the controlling body.Should the report reveal any areas of non compliance with Due Diligence obligations these must be highlighted in the report and acted upon immediately.Any willing provider who continues to operate following a breach of due diligence obligations could be prosecuted for negligence or worse depending on the seriousness of the breach.If the controlling body fails to act on the findings of a ‘failure’ report could also be prosecuted.
This is a key area of the new proposals that needs legal scrutiny and the costs associated with same have not as yet been revealed-indeed it is not clear if the health secretary has even considered these ‘due diligence’ obligations that will become the responsibility of the G,P Consortiums once they take over the budget for treatment allocation.As i have said this does need looking at by a legal professional as it is only a ‘lay’ opinion on a rather complex issue but i thought it needed raising. WILL-I-AM.

Hi Maxine, it’s a really important question. We spoke to experts to find a legal team that would have the expertise we needed and could give us the advice quickly. We’re not with them in any other way. 

I hope that answers your question. 

Johnny

Page 6 of today’s Yorkshire Post (Wed 20 July 2011), ‘PATIENTS TO BE GIVEN CHOICE OF CARE PROVIDERS’, The first paragraph of the article states’ PATIENTS are to be given a choice of providers for mental health and community NHS services including private companies and charities.’
It then goes on to say ‘Health Secretary Andrew Lansley said it was “a big day for patients”, who will be able to choose care from providers meeting NHS standards on quality, price and contracts’.
If this is not ‘back door privatisation’, then I can’t work out what it is. It seems to me that all the hard work, and the petition, have been swept on one side, the coalition are going ahead, anyway. This and the earlier comment on the privatisation of hearing aid services, in Wisbech/Cambridge, seems to suggest that Lansley is ‘cocking a snoot’ at public opinion and carrying on regardless. 
This government is taking us for a ride down the ‘road to privatisation’, and it seems that no amount of opposition, by the general public, will stop the juggernaut.

good point @711e10fb762823cd577d4d0a58d66ece:disqus  - that’s where we’re going to start!

Hi Phil. Thanks for the message and great to hear you’ve been a faithful supporter of 38 Degrees.

I want to reassure you that we are in touch with lots of groups – including those you’ve mentioned. In our conversations with groups it was recognised that there was a need for this sort of advice. 

The main reason we decided we needed independent legal advice was that this was the only way of being sure that we’d get the advice we needed in time to put pressure on MPs once they’re back from their summer holiday. Johnny

is there no protest going on?

While the duties of
the SoS for the NHS are important, more so is whether it needs a conventional
management or whether commissioning and self interest plus the 521 bodies the
BMJ has found will be better. Note the crises caused by deregulating the global
economy in the 1970s and 80s. Now the Coalition blames Gordon Brown and claims reducing
the budget deficit will fix it. In fact these deficits are needed to keep the
show on the road! Why deregulate the NHS when we know how badly Marketisation of
healthcare works in the US? Ending the purchaser-provider split could save
£10bn/year maybe more!

Maybe with the extra money raised (we’re already over the £10,000 target) we could fund a process to come up with an alternative plan for the NHS?  No-one else has come up with an alternative as yet.  38 degrees is already becoming a significant part of the opposition to the government anyway – we might as well start acting like it

This is a smart and inventive move. Normally us progressives tend to be shy about money. We don’t like talking about it too much, but money IS power. I think it’s brilliant how 38 Degrees work with all us members to raise money for specific issues that grab public attention e.g. independent polls, adverts in big newspapers and now hiring big time lawers. The only way we can make a big difference IMHO is by organising people AND money. So £10 shiny pounds is on it’s way right now. Brilliant stuff as always!

I am a pensioner and contributing to this is beyond me. However, I am sure that many lawyers rely on the NHS and maybe they can see their way to making this contribution without payment.

Thanks for your generous donation Stephen and for our kind words. It’s amazing what we can do when we work together!

Hi Martin, that’s a really interesting idea. What does everyone else think?

Hi @5420dab795af62864e40d176a9e3bd03:disqus and @yahoo-C7E3EM7HWIWHXRMUBA7FOCQLOM:disqus have you seen the blog Marie did yesterday? It’s here: http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2011/07/19/badgers-trial-shoots-to-go-ahead/

Love to have helped but regret I am a pensioner living in a country that is discriminated against by the frozen pensions policy and having to live – or should I say survive – on an ever decreasing income; yet we all paid into the fund on the same tems as everyone else.

Keep up the good work – hopefully the campaign for equality, fairness and  justice for British Pensioners living abroad will soon see the light of day on 38 Degrees

Maybe it is time, before they are shunted off into the care less and drug filled environs of our present NHS system, that the elders of the tribe  be consulted?

Let them  bring to life the history of the NHS , the before and the afters,  via  their lives and experiences  especially   those who worked within an organisation that was once so envied by other nations .

We will never have a perfect system but our sickness is that of the heart and money will not cure it.
 .Millions spent on arms and  Trident etc  rather than care for sick people.
Wars and fear induced propoganda
What will the troops returning from  Afghanistan teach their children ?.
By our lifestyles we bring about our own sickness.

sheila simpson

Well actually Nye Bevan came up with an alternative and for decades it was a well meaning, actively growing and thriving organisation. Why this government wants to destroy it beats me.

Hi Margaret
BECAUSE LIKE THATCHER AND MANY CONS BEFORE HER, THEY ARE THE GOVERMENT OF BUSINESs, OF PROFIT AND THATS WHO THEY WORK FOR AND WHO THEY CARE FOR AND BELIEVE IN. THEYSTEAL WHAT IS NOT THEIRS, WHAT IS IN FACT ALL OF OURS AND THEY SELL IT FOR PROFIT, WHICH COMES FROM THE HARDWORK OF THE PEOPLE, THE TAXES AND GRAFT, LIKE BLOOD.

Good idea! I’m sure support for a redesign from 38 Degrees would be helpful.
 
I advocate a cooperative NHS and have written Dave Prentis and Brendan Barber urging UNISON to create an alternative to government’s proposals aided by Gerry Robinson and Peter Fisher. In a memo to Scrutiny and a further letter to UNISON, I imagine an executive agency with a conventional management using emulation to improve efficiency and subsidiarity to respond to local circumstances and able to make the hard choices needed to sustain the NHS after due consultation.

Privatising the NHS won’t help the public as,private medical care is first costly and when you need it (when you’re older)they only pay a percentage of the medical costs for major operations/replacement of limbs,whether or not you’ve been using the medical care.

If its money they need to upgrade facilities,equipment and better salaries for doctoers,nurses and other medical staff, why not charge a medical tax of say £10 per family per month and this will take the pressure off the government and the health budget

I am now one of those elders, Sheila and I appreciate your suggestion. Although I do not remember before the NHS I hope I reflect my generation’s views:
I, like many, have no savings. I did work but did not achieve my dreams in the world, although after retirement age I am busy making up for that in both voluntary work and in a business start-up.
I live in sheltered housing surrounded by 120 people with an average age of c 80. I work as a volunteer activist to try to ensure that services are not eroded, hopefully improved. We collectively have a much higher dependence on free medical care, and the stories I hear about things going wrong are frequent and often distressing. There is so much to say about this that I will use bullet points and try to be economical:
* We live here because we want to be independent, and we have a scheme manager working 37 hours over 5 days, and one doing 18 hours (or warden) and a pull-chord service for out of hours:
* Some of us fought for 2-3 years just to keep the status quo, knowing that with (in our Council) a support charge of £12.85 per week (paid by Housing benefit for about 85% of us on national pensions only) over & above general housing rent we represent the most cost-effective way of housing the elderly;
* The Supporting People money that pays for this has been cut by a few % per annum for years, and the last government, despite representations to a CLG Select Committee 2008-9 (in which I took part alongside a senior officer from Age Concern and the CEO of the largest UK sheltered provider) by expert witnesses the ring-fence was removed allowing SP money to be spent on anything;
* Well run sheltered schemes save the NHS £millions by preventing unnecessary hospitalisation;
* Despite this 800+ elderly died of dehydration last year – mostly unnecessary, undignified and costly;
* About 10-13% of my neighbours have a high support need. We are locally running a ground-breaking scheme to essentially employ our own scheme-based carers on the extra care model which will save the NHS even more money by avoiding unnecessary hospitalisations & deaths, but we get no money from health budgets for this brilliant project;
* The vast majority of Housing Providers have moved from scheme manager/warden full-time, on-site support (vital) to ‘floating’ or no support to save more money; (punch-line of old Middle-eastern story -  “If the donkey had lived just another few days I could have fed it on nothing at all”);
8 this is because not many elderly have the handful of fellow residents who have the capacity & willingness to fight their way up the ladder of participation to achieve the successes we have;
* All governments fail to see the bleedin’ obvious, because they do not see things in an integrated (‘joined-up government’ is now a bad joke word) way, like service users do, and this is just one story about one vulnerable, under-represented group (witness recent scandals about serial neglect, abuse of adults with learning difficulties & collapse of Care Home ‘empires’);
* Privatisations of care of the elderly have already failed (Southern Cross Homes – 31,000 elderly);
* The care industry is failing in general (Panorama program on Winterbourne View) and we see that in sheltered with 17 *types* of different failures in service reported by staff;
* The NHS is already compromised and wasting money – personal example it took 6 months to have a knee-cartilage op because I was sent unnecessarily to a private orthopaedic unit for pre-op assessment, which did not share the results with the NHS unit which had to take over (because the private unit could not handle the possibility of cardiac complications) yet my medical notes are thick, heavy & explicit. This unit is favoured over the NHS one- people go there first, and only if rejected go to the NHS one in the grounds of the same hospital. This is health-care by franchise, for profit only and for no other benefit. The NHS assessment was 20% more thorough;
** Multiply such instances by thousands of patients nationally, then by how many annually and you are talking about £Billions wasted, not just £Millions – yet no-one to whom I have complained has taken this on board – Consultants shrug, disempowered, CEOs just apologise for *my* inconvenience;
*** I have saved the NHS £10s of thousands by using acupuncture, paid from a state pension, to stop having between 1 & 4 new stents in my heart every 9 months, as I did for the 1st 2 years after my heart attack – not now for 3 years – each procedure costing thousands – what about allowing patients to choose complementary therapies, which are generally preventative and cheaper ***
******** The point of this is that service-user groups as part of the *governing structure* of the NHS could save the £Billons that this government says are needed (and the cuts scare is a myth as well google ‘False Economy) because we do not think departmentally, we get the rough end, we live in 10, 20, 50 year chunks not 4-5 year chunks, we do not live by outdated ideology etc etc etc*********

I am declining the option to unsubscribe, because I want to stay in place and support your other matters of concern.
The NHS matter seems to be going round in undefinable circles: I’m afraid that I am unwilling to donate further contributions to that in particular…and can barely afford anything of substance right now. 

I am declining the option to unsubscribe, as I wish to stay in place and consider support for other matters, but this NHS item seems to be going round in circles and is almost a stalemate.  I do not feel in a position to subscribe financially any further to it in particular.

Cameron and Lansley are trying to pull off the BIGGEST swindle in British history because they promised to financially ring fence and protect the National Health Service during the electoral campaign 2010 to gain votes but the moment they got into power told us that they were now going to Break Up and Privatise the National Health Service.

This proves that before and during the ellectoral campaign 2010 David Cameron and Lansley always had a secret Agenda regarding the National Health Service and were always intending to Break Up, Privatise the NHS. This is clear evidence that David Cameron told a Pack of Lies and Deceived the entire population of the United Kingdom before and during the 2010 electoral campaign. This is pure evil and cannot be legal.

But it does not end their because Lansley’s wife will financially benefit from the Break Up and Privatisation of The National Healths Service along with other Tories and close associates, surely this cannot be proper or legal.

David Cameron told a pack of lies and deceived us to gain votes but had a secret agenda to Break Up and Privatise the National Health Service. This is a diabolical Disgrace and surely cannot be legal especially when you look at who will benefit financially from it. Tories are feathering their nests at the expense of our health. You cannot mix health with profit because money that should be spent on health care  will end up in share holders and business peoples pockets.

Dont believe that the National Health Service cannot be made more efficient by Breaking it up and privatising it because changes can be made to make the NHS more efficient possibly better without it being broken up for profit.

Sadly I think that David Cameron will starve the NHS financially to such a point that it will be unable to function properly then Cameron will try and deceive people into the belief that he NHS is not working so that he can fool us into believing his way is the only way forwards. Do not believe Cameron, Lansley and others because they are clever, deceitful liars that are trying to reward their financial supporters and colleagues.

We are being conned and taken for a ride by these deceitful liars that are in it for themselves and we are just porns that do not matter. Our Health is no real concern to them just money.

Leave our NHS alone this is our NHS, under Labour it was working fine and gettinh better with less waiting times plus we were getting better service from our hospitals. We do not want Mr Lansley or anyone else messing about with our health service. ( LEAVE IT ALONE).  

I have asked many times. Why n ot push a more inportant corse!? Change the wording of the constatuion for MP so that there Reposent their constiutenes ANd vote as they want and not as they can do now and vote against what the people want. And if they do n ot then they can be removerd..This was a head liner a while back BUT it has now been forgotten.WHY.. MP’s should be forced to vote as their people want NOT what White Hall wants??? Please anser why ?????????????? Barry Spruce…….. I have a letter from my MP that states he will vote as he thinks best NOT what the perople mhe reposents>WHY is this Be cause he tell me he is NOT a Reposentitive……………..Barry Spruce.If this was the case then we would not hyave to be doing what yoju are doin g NOW MP’s would have to vote for what we want and NOT what White Hall want…CAN NO INE THERE SEE THIS  ??????????????????????

Is this country really in as much trouble as this latest 38degree message says? It looks like it is and it has been prooved so many times before! What is any goverments worth if it doesn’t work for the peoples needs? Why does the public think it has to fund a private legal team to fight for there cause? Does anyone else see the madness in this? We are already paying/voting to try to get what is best for everyone! It should work without having to pay out twice. Who’s pointing out the facts as to why it is this way in the first place? Or do we already know? 

Following a brief article in today’s Guardian, Doctors vote for public campaign to stop NHS bill, I find the longer online version has two references to 38 Degrees and a quote from David Babbs.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jul/20/doctors-campaign-against-nhs-reforms
 
And a BMA Statement on Health and Social Care Bill says: The BMA’s Council met on Wednesday 20 July, 2011 and … calls for the BMA to start a public campaign to call for the withdrawal of the Health and Social Care Bill.
http://www.bma.org.uk/healthcare_policy/nhs_white_paper/latestnhsreformstatement.jsp

Following a brief article in today’s Guardian, Doctors vote for public campaign to stop NHS bill, I find the longer online version has two references to 38 Degrees and a quote from David Babbs.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jul/20/doctors-campaign-against-nhs-reforms
 
And a BMA Statement on Health and Social Care Bill says: The BMA’s Council met on Wednesday 20 July, 2011 and … calls for the BMA to start a public campaign to call for the withdrawal of the Health and Social Care Bill.
http://www.bma.org.uk/healthcare_policy/nhs_white_paper/latestnhsreformstatement.jsp

Sorry Google has led me to post twice. Moderator please delete one and this!

Don’t let Hackgate be a smokescreen for privatisation. 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/jul/21/nhs-privatisation-under-the-radar

Interesting articles in the Independent today:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/heart-tsar-attacks-health-secretarys-nhs-reforms-2325908.html

 At 75 years old with cronic ear trouble a 60% nose blockage what are my chances of an operation to clear my nose

38 Degrees is doing a superb job. It is quite clear that it is the most important mechanism by which ordinary people can make their views known, particularly to government. The amount of money collected to fund a legal challenge, is about three times what was needed.
I presume any excess will be banked to fund future challenges.
Great stuff Guys (female ones as well)
Chris

I’m uncomfortable with your fairly frequent references to Guardian articles. After all, the Guardian has always supported the most free-market-ist of our political parties, the Liberals. And it’s only through the Liberal’s actions in 2010 that we’re in this situation.

Get real M.G The Guardian is the only national paper who took on Murdoch and toppled him.All the rest were either owned by him or they are Tory supporters.Your right about the Liberals and Clegg who sold their sole to the devil but without the lone voice of the Guardian there would be no national paper challenging this evil coalition.As for The Daily Mirror they are more interested in the x-factor and other such drivel and cannot be taken seriously after the salacious lies they wrote about that poor man they wrongly accused of murder.Who would be your preference?  WILL-I-AM

I support all that 38 degrees says about not tampering with the NHS I have written to my MP for Skipton & Ripon and told we do NOT want the NHS messed about with !
                                Arthur Butterworth     Embsay, Skipton North Yorkshire

i am  sick to death   of this goverment  water gas electric  telephone what are the people  supposed to do just except it  are the wages benifits and pensions going up to match alltheses rises why dont we allgo on strike and say no we are not having this  enough  is enough      a graham    .