NHS poll: the results

Went to my local hospital yesterday for a 10.40 appointment. Upon arrival at 10.30 I booked in at reception and was told to go down to my specialists waiting area, got there and spotted a notice stuck on the wall that there was a 30 minute delay, so finally got in to see the specialist at 11.10am. Was back out 5 minutes later and asked if I’d fill in a survey of her performance. Regrettably there was nowhere to put kept waiting for no apparent reason. What’s it going to be like if the government get their way and the NHS is privatised?

I think the concerted voice of many people probably holds the biggest fear for the government particularly in these days of mass protest. Secondly those voices need to be on NHS committees, as I myself am as an elected public representative. I give the patient perspective on the myriad of proposals, which are not in the public interest, that are coming through thick and fast.

I am amazed that Doctors are to be trusted to commission services when apparently this government don’t trust them to be right when recommending someone gets Incapacity Benefit.

I e-mailed my MP about my concerns regarding the Governments plans for the NHS especially how they are already impacting the services that I use.
I got back a fatuous form letter refering to a speach had had recently given in the House. I took the trouble to look up the speach on Hansard. It was full of Tory generalisations full of back-slapping interventions.
What a load of rubbish we are having to put up with.

I urge all supporters to buy at least two copies of the newly published book ‘The Plot Against the NHS’ by Colin Leys and Stewart Player ( http://www.merlinpress.co.uk/acatalog/THE_PLOT_AGAINST_THE_NHS.html ) one to read yourself and one to send to your MP. It describes in devastating detail how multinational companies have leaned on politicians to open up the NHS as a site for profit-making. The current plans are the result of this process.

Fantastic work by 38 Degrees- thankyou- a truly democratic campaign, unlike what we are seeing in Parliamentary process on this Bill.

Please also check out the brilliant NHS Reforms liveblog on the Guardian online, which has been running all week, and to resume next Tuesday, with different topics being aired and debated.(Planned for 2 months I think.)

Can also be found on hashtag nhsblog (Twitter;)- many experts and the public have joined the debate, and flagging up articles.I think networking can be very effective to bring people together- professionals and public to hilight what is so wrong with this Bill in its current form.

This is probably our last chance to effect any change!

J

I do not believe the Tories and their lies. Their life long ambition is to privatize our NHS and we should stop them from demolishing a good and fair system. It is difficult to work out how doctors could be trusted to commission, simply because they were not trained to perform such an important task. The Tories plan for our NHS is doomed to be a failure, and it is still time to stop them.

Why not look at the people and corporations backing this plan? It is clear to me that there is a goldmine here for somebody and I’m sure we can uncover some of them. Then it will be a simple exercise to examine their past behaviour and show everyone what they are REALLY like!

Nick Clegg has totally reneged on his promises to safeguard the NHS and Students fees etc. Please do not allow him to slither into power again by voting for any change in voting methods, at the referendum.

Well, the doctors will hire private sector management companies to do the commissioning for them. They will tend to prioritise cost over quality. In any case, competition law will mean they will have to use services which have the least cost (with only lip service being paid to maintaining quality). Private sector health providers will offer ‘lost leader’ services initially until NHS providers have been fatally undermined. The NHS will be left as a rump, providing poor services in areas where there is little profit for private sector companies. Once this has happened it will be too late and private sector providers will dominate healthcare. Initially, care will still be ‘free at the point of delivery’ but this is unlikely to last as government will claim it is too expensive (it will be expensive as, having destroyed the NHS, private health care providers will put their prices up). Patients will then be forced to pay, to use poor quality NHS services (if still available) or to go without. More and more people will be persuaded to take out private health insurance, which will cover them, if they are lucky. Those who canno afford insurance will be left out in the cold.

This is just the latest in our continued subservience to the US way of doing things (Iraq war, financial deregulation etc). We never learn.

Q. when is a GP an accountant?
A. never.. (but it seems that’s up to us)

Please stick to the issue under discussion.

Anyway, a change in the voting system to AV is highly unlikely to return Nick Clegg to power in any future election. With his present unpopularity he won’t be many people’s 1st, 2nd or even 10th choice. He will be toast regardless.

By all means ring fence essential services that are availaible to all at the point of need BUT do something about the waste of money and time by people who do not keep appointments. I know of an outpatients department where 25% of appointments are not kept. Purchasing arrangements could also be more efficeint and save millions

The doctors are at a loss to look after their patients, let alone the business aspect of the commission. Doctors are paid to take care of patients. Some doctors do also train to be executives, and they may have an advantage. Taking care of people in the community will need a less “silo” type organisation.. Social workers and such should have a bit of a better hold on patients’ needs and can assist the GP’s…

The only way to get MP’s to work on our behalf, i.e. that is what they were elected for, is to continue writing to them. If every constituent sent an email to his MP on a daily basis for 10 days the MP might start to pay attention. Unbridled arrogance on the part of the Health Secretary, the Prime minister and the Deputy prime minister in attempting to treat the electorate as ignorant of the facts is breath taking. The electorate voted for this government and the same electorate if not respected will remove this government. That should be the message to our MP’s and to the Prime Minister, no threats, just promises. It is not their NHS it is our NHS.

Hi PJ
Your analysis is spot on. But it might worse than that, in it appears that when framing this legislation Lansley did not understand how the private sector works. You mentioned private sector loss leaders squeezing out the NHS. When Humphries brought this up in the BBC series Lansley simply didn’t understand, asking “Why would anyone do that ?” when H tried to explain L said something like “..,well if the quality is right it won’t matter will it ?” Naive or devious ? According to the Daily Mirror Lansley’s link with private health providers in the US and UK are being investigated.. Have a look at :

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/201/02/06/fury-after-private-health-firm-with-close-tory-links-wins-53million-prison-hospitals-contract-115875-22901987/#ixzz1KHjnWXWm

Great work by three degrees – and by most of the contribuors to this blog, very informative.

We have a problem. The cost of health care is increasing exponentially as medical costs rise quicker than inflation and as new, more expensive treatments and medicines become available. If we demand no change whatsoever, the NHS as we know it will come under increasing threat. The way to save it is NOT to demand no change but to offer constructive, expert opinion on how to reduce costs and operate more efficiently. Wholesale change without prior testing worries the hell out of me from that point of view and to that extent I am doing what I can to learn in detail what GPs say, not from newspapers but from asking them myself and I will continue down that route until I know enough to be able to add something useful to the debate. In the meantime, I’d love to see the public being asked to think differently as well: perhaps along the lines of “is your visit really necessary?” because I’m pretty sure we could all be doing stuff to help reduce costs as well.

Frankly a 30 minute wait seems to me to be cause for celebration. You get to see a specialist without having to pay substantial private insurance payments. Compare this to the US where tales of grandparents mortgaging their houses to pay for their grown children’s healthcare abound. I could also spend quite some time giving you a 3 year catalogue of bad luck compounded by medical misjudgement compounded by ridiculous NHS systems which have left a friend unable to work or walk without sticks or 38 pain killers a day including morphine patches. There is something not right with a system which first inflicts and then allows that degree of unwitting cruelty without even a nod to its own role in the affair.

Yes, life expectancy and cost of treatments are rising. But that is true for ALL health systems. Private providers world-wide are raising their prices – as well as excluding the elderly – so we must expect to pay more for the NHS. Why not ? The NHS provides world class treatment to ALL at a lower cost per head, and requires a smaller proportion of GNP, than any other developed nation. Yes there are inefficiencies in the NHS as in any organisation but I consider stuffing money into the pockets of private providers a much more inefficient use of taxpayers money. Incidentally, around here in the North West, GP’s, surgeons, specialists nurses et al are already working together and contributing successfully to lowering costs and improving services – within existing NHS structures. Oh yes, their success is being is used by the Coalition as ‘proof’ of the need to introduce private providers aka Yankee snake-oil salesmen.

@Barbara Barron: You’re confusing things and mixing them up. This referendum is nothing to do with Nick Clegg, the bloody liberal democrats, or the NHS. Vote reform is all about breaking the dominance of the two-three main parties, improving the representation of the British people in the legislative chamber and making the process of voting a positive rather than negative one.

I shall take no part in your campaign vis the NHS which is crucial to the well being of all of us. It is however self evidently badly managed and very poorly organised and MUST be reformed. Some hard decisions have to be made and if they are not the institution itself will not survive.

I agree it defies logic to think that taking money out of the system through introducing private companies will increase overall resources available. I am beginning to worry though that pressure groups like 38 degrees are no better than the press in terms of bullying politicians into make decisions based on poorly informed public reaction rather expert advice. Also I don’t think of this as a Coalition policy – it is Conservative lead: LibDems roundly voted down proposed NHS changes at Conference.

I rate you all 38 team, amongst the brave ones trying to deal with it and I see you´ve been having some improvement as regards sparking a countrywide debate about how to organize an issue on your health system, no matter what!
as a foreigner…..I can´t say much about it
however you´ve been fighting for your rights up in the UK
which is worthy of notice!
I have it up on fb wall alright!

There were to be no reductions in front line services during transition. This is clearly untrue – services may not have been discontinued but they have been rendered ‘inactive’ and ‘not available at present due to the changes’. This is not protection.

Does anyone think this AV debate is distracting from the big issues- like NHS reforms, and local council budget cuts to come in May?

Are the changes going to be quietly pushed through behind closed doors?

We have to keep this high on the agenda!

I’ve talked to a few doctors and others who seem to think a “two tiered” service is eventually inevitable due to rising costs, an ageing population, new treatments etc. This defeatism is so sad. It is crucial to maintain the core ethics of the NHS which is that all are treated equally and freely whatever their means. But this is difficult in a society with a widening gap between rich and poor and a reluctance by the rich to pay their due tax but engage in all kinds of avoidance tricks instead. The NHS is inspired by Socialism too, a political idea that is out of fashion. But somehow we have to win the argument and also make the case that, if necessary taxes may have to increase to pay what’s required. We all know private insurance is so costly that a bit more tax makes sense for us all! What is the point of more money in our pocket if we cannot get essential treatment if we are sick? Re G Jackson’s suggestion that the NHS is badly organised. No doubt there are problems but the Bill will not make the NHS more efficient I’m quite sure and it will certainly make it more costly. There are other more devious reasons for Lansley’s proposals like opening the door to more privatisation (enriching business) and to costs for some services (reducing costs).

I haven’t heard much about an AV debate in the last couple of weeks. All I’ve noticed on the TV is Kate and William, Royal Marriages, The Middletons… etc.

David C. is telling us to go out and party in the streets. No doubt London will be lined with wide eyed US and Chinese folks, most I know don’t care, but it’s a brilliant diversion.

I know I don’t like the plans to put finance into the GPs hands, into the private sector, but I know things can’t be left as they are. The trouble is, what should be done? I don’t know.