What could 38 Degrees do in the general election?

As a ‘members driven’ organisation, don’t just provide ‘unbiased opinion’ – do something more effective:
1) Survey members as to what issues are most importants to them
2) Compile and then ask members to research their PPCs as to how they rank on each of the top issues (on a national and devolved area basis)
3) Publish a public ranking of the PPCs and use to create a synthesised ranking of each party nationally and for each devolved area
4) Endorse a party (nationally and regionally) and individual candidates (based on the ranking)
5) Mobilise support around those endorsed candidates (and against those of any party that are poorly ranked)
6) Run a get-out-to-vote action on voting day (with sufficient lead-in)

Great excitement in the media over the prospect of a TV “debate” among Brown, Cameron & Clegg as leaders of the “UK” parties. But, in this weird & wonderful “United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland” no attention is given to the following facts:-
1. the SNP is the leading party in Scotland and forms the minority government in the Scottish Parliament; 2. Plaid Cymru forms a coalition with Labour in the Welsh Assembly government; and 3. the only “UK” candidates in Northern Ireland at the 2005 general election were Conservatives standing in only three of the 18 constituencies, who came fifth, fifth & sixth respectively. Are there really any “UK” parties? All three of them seem frightened to discuss reform of the UK constitution to match modern political realities. Can they be challenged on this, please?

I agree with Duane.

All prospective parliamentary candidates in the general election are going to declare that they support the NHS and education and would like to eradicate poverty. They will all want to support our troops and reduce crime. Whoopee! Don’t we all! They will ‘support’ our institutions and ‘would like’ – words and phrases that mean little. The question to be asked is WHAT WILL THEY DO.

Robin is correct in his assessment of the lack of cohesion within “UK”" politics, with Labour and Tories in Scotland and England having completely different ideas within the supposedly united party lines. It would be interesting to try to identify the real internal differences within the geographical locations of the unionist parties as they seek to bid for the centre ground of yoo-kay politics. More importantly, however, is to force the parties into making a firm manifesto commitment to reform the banking system and to introduce legislation to hold accountancy firms accountable for the company accounts they examine and introduce mandatory jail sentences for fraud and collusion by directors of these firms which sign off on accounts which are insufficiently audited. Legally accountable auditing should show up flaws in company accounts which would allow shareholders to take appropriate action to rein in the bad practises of the senior management of large companies.

great comments by duane

don’t surrender to a conservative victory … now is a golden opportunity to help ensure the future make-up of parliament more closely reflects the people

too small to make an impact? … here are two quotes anita roddick constantly said, ‘If you think you’re too small to have an impact, try going to bed with a mosquito’ and ‘Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has’.

would also like to see a campaign for online voting … we can do almost everything else online e.g. banking and even registering to vote … it would really help the turnout and bring young people to the table

I think Duane’s hit the nail on the head. It is impossible & ineffective to be unbiased in this situation. Yes most politicians are slimy & will rarely commit to anything substantial and the ones that do are usually lying but we have this political system at the moment which is not going to change anytime soon. With that in mind, unfortunately we all have to choose a side based on our own values and who we believe will uphold them best.

We need to reduce the number of MP’s. I say by 75%

ps – dont expect the campaign for online voting to succeed for this election … but good to get the ball rolling/raise the possibility

Sack half of them, preferably the greediest, and keep the ones who are interested in helping this country, rather than grabbing as much as they can for themselves (if any).

I suspect I am not alone in feeling that I am not represented at all by any current M P.
How about a campaign on the lines of the original struggle for American Independence,’No Taxation Without Representation’
That should get their attention !

I think we should all push hard for true green taxes rather than minor tinkering. This means a radical shift towards taxing resource use, mainly fossil fuels and not labour, income should not be taxed. Making it cheaper for companies to employ people rather than use fossil fuel burning machines would reduce CO2 emissions and reduce unemployment, and so gradually bring us to a more sustainable economy. See http://www.energybulletin.net/51102. This will hit the rich if they chose to endulge in activities such as flying, etc.. But in parallel with this we also need to tax the financial tertiary economy hard so that the creation of bubbles and financial pyramid schemes isn’t encouraged.

Thanks everyone for these comment. It’s fantastic to see so many people getting involved both here and on our Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/peoplepowerchange

Duane, thanks for your excellent suggestions. We do run regular member surveys, at least once a month, and closely monitor what our members tell us. They go to a random selection of the list so you might be seeing one soon. We’re currently exploring how we can interact with PPCs (Prospective Parliamentary Candidates) and your comments are really useful as we develop that.

Interesting to hear that there’s support for endorsing candidates and/or specific parties. We’ve had lots of successs since we launched last year by remaining independent of all political parties. Do please keep the comments about this.

The election is still months away and we have a good amount of time to make our plans. Please don’t forget to take part in the Survey:http://www.38degrees.org.uk/election/

I support most of Duane’s suggestions but would be a bit wary of endorsing particular candidates and certainly any one party as spin could be too easy. If any PPCs were poorly ranked then they should be named and shamed. A get-out-to-vote action is an excellent idea as many of the electorate are so fed-up with politicians turn-out could be a disaster (and I’m sure online voting would encourage youger people in the future.

I would like to see as a group support MP’s irrespective of their party line who support the views of our group as a majority and will progress us as a United Kingdom with a strong economy and a satisfactory future all its people. Government by the people for the people and not for few.

Issues relating to personal and corporate greed rank high on my agenda for any Elected UK Government to address. This subject embraces all matters relating to the Sustainable nature of our lives. We damn the Bankers, yet the legal corporate architecture which supports a greed and growth driven society is still in place. It will take time and effort to dismantle and rebuild that essential sustainable corporate format.
We must fight to inform all political parties, that there are alternative futures which require us to adopt Sustainable Economic Practices and policies. Wales and the Welsh Assembly is attempting to do this with its Sustainable Charter. It must provide a firm backbone for weak political will !
“Business as usual is not an option” – Cover page of Tim Jackson’s book Prosperity without growth.

I am with Adrian and Andrew above – sustainable future or no real future, but so little being addressed by the mainstream parties in any meaningful and consistent way. How about today’s Quality of Life Index of countries putting us 25th “Some 200 countries were marked in nine categories, including culture and leisure, environment, safety, culture and weather – with Britain failing to triumph in any of them..”
How about a link up with old Charter 88 and voting reform for the UK so all our votes count? Coupled with a push for measures that re-engage people with politics – simpler voting systems.

I like most of what Duane suggests, but I think the risk of polling members to see what issues matter most to them (step (1)) is that we might end up with too many issues. My own personal #1 issue would be something to do with the environment, but I think even in a climate-conscious world the environment will inevitably not be a big issue in the election, precisely because it is a General Election. A general election is about all issues at once (or cynics might say none).

So I would like to suggest a single ‘issue’ which I hope members can agree with, to which we can then apply Duane’s steps (2) to (5), and which 38 Degrees can become publicly associated with: constitutional reform, i.e. restoring faith in UK democracy and in Parliament. Elections are democracy in action, but let’s use this election to actually promote better democracy.

There was already much wrong with UK democracy before the Westminster expenses scandal, but I hope we all agree that it is the only option we have. Here are some of the problems. I don’t claim to know all the solutions, or even the options, but perhaps members can be polled to see if there is general agreement on some key elements of constitutional reform to ask PPCs about.

1 There is no written UK constitution, just a bunch of old, opaque so-called conventions. Answer: we need a transparent Bill of Rights (including a fixed term of government, rather than the endless speculation of ‘will the election be in March or May?’).

2 The ability of Parliament to hold the Government to account needs to be strengthened. Answer: abolish the Royal Prerogative?

3 The 3 main ‘UK’ political parties share many policies (including getting back to ‘business as usual’ after the banking scandal, the recession and Copenhagen, when clearly, as pointed out above, ‘business as usual’ is the cause of all these problems) but do not have a single ideology between them. Answer: fairer voting systems to allow more radical voices to be heard?

(Example: The SNP boasts about Scotland having the most ambitious climate change legislation in the world, but that was a result of the bargains and concessions made by the minority government in parliament, which itself was the result of a fairer voting system.)

Finally, Westminster MPs have all been tarnished by the expenses scandal, but I suspect for many, if not most of them, this is not deserved. Can 38 Degrees find and publish information about those who did no wrong, or even just numbers of MPs who did no wrong (or less wrong)?

One of the most effective ways of influencing PPC’c is to actually go and meet with them at their surgeries. They tend to respond much more favourably when they are face to face with constituents, particularly when we are well informed and well versed in the issues they face.
So let’s petition, but also get out as individuals and meet with as many PPC’s as we can. We can also learn a lot about our PPC’s when we meet as so much communication is non-verbal it will be easier to establish whether someone is genuine or simply ‘spinning’.

As for the major issues for me; tax breaks for developing sustainable businesses all round. Lots of large corporations are asking the government to lead the way on developing a greener economy, we need the kind of leadership that will make some unpopular decisions in the short term, for longer term benefit to all of us in the UK and way beyond.

Hi – interesting comments so far. I too would be wary of endorsing a candidate as they then may just feel that they were ‘safe’ with our votes.

My main dismay with current politics is that the individuals seem to be an easy target for taxation & legislation – rather than corporations & the mega-supermarkets. I get so very frustrated when I hear politicians bemoaning an obese population and yet the do not enforce clear food labelling; they talk about an individuals carbon footprint with regards to energy consumption & landfill waste – and yet my family has been able to live for over a year on a 90% freegan diet – also how can they allow companies such as Carcraft to have their premises illuminated like a football pitch at 3am?!

There is now talk about moving back to the uk being more self-sufficient when thanks to their ineffectiveness & the stranglehold of the supermarkets farmers are in a worst position than ever before.

I would like to see our government get some real teeth & stop merely playing lip-service to the ‘topic of the moment’ – we are running out of time on many fronts & they need to stand up for the individuals they represent not bow down to the corporations lining their pockets.

I too am wary of endorsing a candidate (or party), despite the fact that I proposed it. While fraught with risks, there are also opportunities that would have to be balanced.

Ultimately, if it happens, it would need the legitimacy of a member-vote/poll and would thus be the preference of 38 degrees members, not of 38 degrees the organisation. This is how it was approached in the past in the US (MoveOn.org) although GetUp.org.au in Australia didn’t go this route and still influenced the outcome (but under a different political dynamic than currently in the UK).

The impetus beyond the suggestion was that UK corporations (especially private media) make endorsements that claim to represent their readers (and thus voters) when it really represents the editorial board or the owner (e.g. Murdoch). There is a political vacuum for an independent member-based endorsement that can counter this on local and perhaps national basis. Not making an endorsement simply gives that territory to the media rather than the people.

The US experience is that at times this can mean endorsing candidates from opposing parties in different constituencies. It isn’t always successful (nothing is) but organises and independent group around best-available candidates and hopefully provides self-directed volunteers to promote the preferred candidate. I could also taint 38 Degrees members as supporters of a particular party or politics, but I’d guess that perception is already held by politicians and media. The key is being transparent and consistent in any decision-making process for the sake of the members, the media and the politicians – and then following through with an effort to convince and get others out to vote.

I think it could be a good opportunity for this community to self-organise and develop the skills and connections to continue to influence government and parties in the years to come, regardless of the results this time around. Basically I see it as a next step in developing an independent political movement in the UK…and it could be great fun too!

duane rocks

I think party politics is a problem. Even if you elect a good man he cannot go against party policy and all parties will lie to take control, once in , try to shift them,even when caught with their hands in the till. The Kelly recommendations have all but been wiped out by Sir Ian Kennedy.
If every area elected an independent to fight their corner in a truly altruistic way with a mandate from their area !!!! but that can’t happen so we had better just put the pressure on who we can. The U.S. system has its merits.

James: absolutely agree.

The earlier 38 Degrees action on a recall law can help counter-balance that (if it gets enacted) as could a referendum law (although I shudder at how some would attempt to use it – but that is democracy).

A parliament of independents would be great and may be achievable in the medium term. But a national network of locally organised voters focused on directly and actively supporting best-available candidates during elections and of remaining mobilised between elections could certainly make them think twice about their loyalties. While at first we’d be disorganised and have low effectiveness, we’d improve rapidly. See the (conservative leaning) Tea Party movement in the US as one example (and the previously mentioned MoveOn example during Bush years and now continuing).

PS – wish this blog had a system for alerting each other to comments so we could evolve the discussion since right now I have to remember to check the page.

Top 3 issues…

a. Climate change – obvious!

b. Inequality – the Labour govt has done a lot of good work supporting those at the bottom, but they have been disastrous in encouraging the top end; as a result inequality and consumerism have flourished – with bad consequences in almost every direction, not least environmentally.

c. Electoral reform – this is absolutely crucial, first for fairness, but also to enable people to influence parties and individual MPs much more effectively than under our present ‘safe seat’ electoral system. i.e. until the system is changed, we have much less influence on issues. I liked Patricia O’Connor’s comments on an earlier blog [December 30, 2009] “Our absolute priority should be electoral reform. We need a system that acknowledges all votes and eliminates safe seats, such as the Single Transferable Vote (rather than the List system that political parties would prefer if they cannot retain First Past the Post.) We also need an elected House of Lords with its own clearly defined powers and responsibilities. A recall system for MPs would be useful. With the greater power and influence over our representatives thus obtained, people would be in a stronger position to pursue other objectives.”

Finally, a few comments to those who want a parliament of all independents, or to drastically reduce the number of MPs. Despite what the Daily Mail or Telegraph might say, many MPs really are excellent, extremely hard working, and environmentally active (I know 2 like that anyway!). Some independents are great (and I’m happy to have them) but some are rubbish, some are corrupt – at least with a party there is potentially some degree of control over the quality of who stands, and at least with parties you have some idea of what your candidates stand for. Finally, as regards reducing the number of MPs, remember that the bigger population each one represents, the less we can influence them and the less they will care what we think. I feel constituencies are big enough already.

The difficulty for me with Duane’s idea is that it may serve ultimately to support a corrupt system.
Unless we can really isolate some radical and far-reaching issues for which we are supporting individual ppc’s, like genuine reform of the voting system (see Ian Cowan) or/and the dismantling of the finance and corporate sector’s stanglehold on the taxation policies of all the major parties (see Andrew Loxham) then I fear this strategy will lack impact.
I honestly do not think enough consideration has been given to the potential for some kind of tax strike as a protest against what is being done in our name with our money. The richest tenth of the population now take 31% of the UK’s total income, 3% more than ten years ago. The poorest tenth have 1.3%, a slightly smaller percentage than ten years ago (www.poverty.org.uk). There are literally millions of middle-class people who know this is wrong, but don’t know what to do about it and have few options. It won’t change whichever party gets in, nor will the growth of untrammelled corporate greed or the corruption of bankers – in fact it will all get much worse if the Tories get in.
People power is surely ready to be flexed. Tax is a traditional fault line. 38 Degrees has the potential.

Some very interesting comments here and I am pleased to see so many people passionate about influencing change. This hope for change must be encouraged but – and it is a big but – so many people think it not worth bothering to vote, that MPs cannot be trusted (includes those in Northern Ireland too it seems), that any ‘promises’ or commitments made before an election will be ignored afterwards (prime example? – Labour’s manifesto commitment to have a vote on the Lisbon treaty). I am not sure what the answer is to make MPs improve their integrity. The Holy Bible says, ‘By their fruits shall you know them.’ In other words, you will see what they are like by what they do. Something for us to think about in the run up to the election!
I am sorry to be so negative, but how can we get MPs to be more honest in what they say, own up to where we are as a country (a pretty poor place on all sorts of measures), and actually do what they say they will do? With these areas addressed then maybe more people would feel like making the effort to vote because they would feel that a vote would make a change for the good.

I hope for a better future than we have at present and if the people vote with their feet/or postal vote, then we would see who would come out on top. Would a different political party emerge and if so who. I had a shock at the last local election to see how many new Parties there are now, a long list of Candidates.
Does this mean the “People” are no longer happy with the Major Parties?
I wonder what will happen, and when WILL the Election be?
Its time for the Leaders and the upcoming hopeful Political Parties to get there act together and explain what they are going to do.

To put into Action now, and After the Election, not just talk about it -and then back track on what they have said.
We need more feed back from ALL Politicians before making any Decision. What do others think?

I think 38 Degrees is already helping to change the way Pollution’s react, by just being here on line.
Its the first time I have dared write anything about what,”I” a small cog in the wheel of this Country thinks about the way we can make changes for the good. I hope the” little person in the Street” can be heard.
Its good to be able to read what others think too.

No way should 38Degrees be thinking of endorsing any particular candidates or party, unless of course you want to lose a large number of your supporters who joined based on you being “completely independent from any political party”.

If people want to support a particular party they can join it – something increasing numbers of us choose not to do.

>> Duane: A parliament of independents would be great and may be achievable in the medium term.

Really?!!! I’m not sure why this would be great – the last thing I want to see is a Parliament of Esther Rantzens – but I’d be interested to know what the ‘medium term’ is?

I think the first and foremost aim should be to get the political parties to actually reveal what their agendas are going to be for the next 5 years. This week we saw Labour’s cabinet negotiate their political support for attention and Cameron reveal he does not know what the Tory tax policy for marriage is. This suggests that neither party is particularly clear about what it stands for. It seems that politics is currently dominated by headline policies and little coherent vision for what britain should be like in the future. Can we not put pressure to make at the very least all the major parties tell us exactly what they are going to cut, how much they are going to cut and what the effects will be and allow us to make an informed choice at the ballot box.

People do not vote because they recognise it is pointless under the current system – this is then reported as ‘voter apathy’ when it is nothing of the kind. If even a small proportion of those who choose not to vote for reasons that are anything other than apathy were to show up together, at an appointed time convenient to most, at polling stations across the country & to publicly burn their ballot papers in their thousands, in a show of mass disatisfaction with the voting system, it would be very hard for the mainstream media to pass this off as apathetic. In fact it could be the biggest story of the year, if not the decade, could capture the public imagination, & quite easily force the kind of electoral reform we crave. And it’d be a lot of fun.

Surprisingly for me, I am not going to bring up climate change. Before Christmas a doctor told me about how alcohol abuse was becoming a big issue and a big cost in his hospital in the North East. We appear to be stacking up health problems for future years (a bit like climate change). Despite pressure from back bench MPs, Gordon Brown is resisting minimum cost on alcohol units which the experts say is really important to stop binge drinking. I would like to see that in the party manifestos.

I have not come accross your site before but it seems to me that the British get the government they deserve. If we voted based on the integrity of the people rather than the issues it would be much better.

Hi everyone, Thanks for all your ideas. To give all members a chance to help decide what we should do in the election we’ve launched an online consultation. To get involved sign up here http://www.38degrees.org.uk/2010-election

It happens in many countries all over the world and all it achieves is worse; apathy plus nothing happens. Only smoke, a few headlines and thats it.

What needs to happen is that we need to vote for the right candidate. And when I say right, I mean someone who deserves it, someone who is the least evil of all. The best among the lot. Only that will bring change, not burning ballot papers.

We need to get get involved not just for a day in 5 years, but at all times. If we vote for these MPs, we can surely start holding these MPs accountable also.

Very very important to participate in these elections. Put the past behind, look at the future, choose the right part and announce your support. Support the right person, whether it is the least worst person, the best among the lot, do it. Vote. Then stay involved and don’t let your voice from being wasted!

As a 'members driven' organisation, don't just provide 'unbiased opinion' – do something more effective:
1) Survey members as to what issues are most importants to them
2) Compile and then ask members to research their PPCs as to how they rank on each of the top issues (on a national and devolved area basis)
3) Publish a public ranking of the PPCs and use to create a synthesised ranking of each party nationally and for each devolved area
4) Endorse a party (nationally and regionally) and individual candidates (based on the ranking)
5) Mobilise support around those endorsed candidates (and against those of any party that are poorly ranked)
6) Run a get-out-to-vote action on voting day (with sufficient lead-in)