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	<title>Comments on: There are now over 10,000 of us</title>
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	<link>http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2009/07/14/there-are-now-over-10000-of-us/</link>
	<description>38 Degrees brings you together with other people to take action on the issues that matter to you and bring about real change.</description>
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		<title>By: Stephen Barraclough</title>
		<link>http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2009/07/14/there-are-now-over-10000-of-us/comment-page-5/#comment-613</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Barraclough</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 11:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/?p=58#comment-613</guid>
		<description>http://www.maturetimes.co.uk/node/9064
IK heartily recommend reading this article by Terry Waite to all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.maturetimes.co.uk/node/9064" rel="nofollow">http://www.maturetimes.co.uk/node/9064</a><br />
IK heartily recommend reading this article by Terry Waite to all.</p>
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		<title>By: redmik</title>
		<link>http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2009/07/14/there-are-now-over-10000-of-us/comment-page-5/#comment-474</link>
		<dc:creator>redmik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Aug 2009 01:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/?p=58#comment-474</guid>
		<description>OK, 10,000, big deal.

Was 38 degrees overdue ?

No, it had already happened here in Stoke in 2002 when we formed an organisation (democracy4stoke) which fought against the provisions of the 2000 Loc Gov Act (which sought to impose the US-inspired directly elected mayoral system on us).

We lost the first referendum but continued a watching brief until our re-launch in 2006 when we embarked on a campaign to get enough signatures (coincidentally, also 10,000) on a petition to force another referendum.

This was presented to Phil Woolas in January 2007 and we were told that the legislative prescriptions were &quot;not set in stone&quot;.

Alas, neither was that particular minister&#039;s brief, and his replacement (John Healey) ignored that particular commitment.

Indeed, the Government had set up a &#039;Governance Commission&#039;, infested with &#039;patsies&#039;, which produced a report to broadly support the conclusions of the 2000 and the 2007 Acts.

However, we (D4S) persevered and persuaded the Council to hold a referendum last October - which we won by a 2:1 ratio.

This led to the creation of a &#039;Transition Board&#039; to &#039;oversee&#039; the recommendations of the Commission. This was (again) stuffed with people who would nod through the wishes of central government against those of the local citizens.

The abolition of the directly-elected mayoral system led to the Leader/Cabinet model which took over on June 8th with the Leader of the Tory/Independent Group (with 8 out of the 60 councillors) as Council Leader. And although the Government calls for more &#039;diversity&#039; we feel that with no less than 8 political groups we are diverse enough ! (No-one is giving odds on how long this will last !)

Now a &#039;consultation&#039; has just started, being conducted by the Boundary Committee, to determine just how many councillors we need. This will be followed by further exercises to give the number of wards and how many councillors in each (&quot;cart&quot;, &quot;horse&quot; and &quot;before&quot; come to mind).

Needless to say these figures will comply with the favoured option of whichever policy wonk at the centre is in fashion. However, it is too early to say  whether the replacement of Hazel Blears by John Denham will make much difference.

Democracy4Stoke (D4S) is monitoring and submitting to these various processes but is finding very little attention from central government or the agencies which are tasked with conducting the exercise.  This is despite the fact that we quite demonstrably speak for the people of the area and enjoy support from people of all parties and none.

We do take some inspiration from the situation in Blaenau Gwent where a successful &#039;People&#039;s Voice&#039; organisation has confounded the machinations of the faceless and unelected people who are really &#039;in power&#039; nationally.

I have had to go on at some length to give a picture of what is happening in just one part of the country - but outside London - but hope that it illustrates the need for a wider-based organisation than we have been able to generate until now. 

Perhaps 38degrees will satisfy that need and your approach will be discussed at our next meeting - and adapting the old slogan &quot;think global, act local&quot; may seem appropriate.

In democracy,
Mick Williams,
Convenor, D4S.

MISSION STATEMENT.
Democracy4Stoke exists to co-ordinate and support the efforts
of those (of all political persuasions and none) who seek to 
establish a form of governance for the area which is 
decent, honest and legal and which truly reflects 
the wishes of its citizens.

.....informed, rational decisions ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, 10,000, big deal.</p>
<p>Was 38 degrees overdue ?</p>
<p>No, it had already happened here in Stoke in 2002 when we formed an organisation (democracy4stoke) which fought against the provisions of the 2000 Loc Gov Act (which sought to impose the US-inspired directly elected mayoral system on us).</p>
<p>We lost the first referendum but continued a watching brief until our re-launch in 2006 when we embarked on a campaign to get enough signatures (coincidentally, also 10,000) on a petition to force another referendum.</p>
<p>This was presented to Phil Woolas in January 2007 and we were told that the legislative prescriptions were &#8220;not set in stone&#8221;.</p>
<p>Alas, neither was that particular minister&#8217;s brief, and his replacement (John Healey) ignored that particular commitment.</p>
<p>Indeed, the Government had set up a &#8216;Governance Commission&#8217;, infested with &#8216;patsies&#8217;, which produced a report to broadly support the conclusions of the 2000 and the 2007 Acts.</p>
<p>However, we (D4S) persevered and persuaded the Council to hold a referendum last October &#8211; which we won by a 2:1 ratio.</p>
<p>This led to the creation of a &#8216;Transition Board&#8217; to &#8216;oversee&#8217; the recommendations of the Commission. This was (again) stuffed with people who would nod through the wishes of central government against those of the local citizens.</p>
<p>The abolition of the directly-elected mayoral system led to the Leader/Cabinet model which took over on June 8th with the Leader of the Tory/Independent Group (with 8 out of the 60 councillors) as Council Leader. And although the Government calls for more &#8216;diversity&#8217; we feel that with no less than 8 political groups we are diverse enough ! (No-one is giving odds on how long this will last !)</p>
<p>Now a &#8216;consultation&#8217; has just started, being conducted by the Boundary Committee, to determine just how many councillors we need. This will be followed by further exercises to give the number of wards and how many councillors in each (&#8221;cart&#8221;, &#8220;horse&#8221; and &#8220;before&#8221; come to mind).</p>
<p>Needless to say these figures will comply with the favoured option of whichever policy wonk at the centre is in fashion. However, it is too early to say  whether the replacement of Hazel Blears by John Denham will make much difference.</p>
<p>Democracy4Stoke (D4S) is monitoring and submitting to these various processes but is finding very little attention from central government or the agencies which are tasked with conducting the exercise.  This is despite the fact that we quite demonstrably speak for the people of the area and enjoy support from people of all parties and none.</p>
<p>We do take some inspiration from the situation in Blaenau Gwent where a successful &#8216;People&#8217;s Voice&#8217; organisation has confounded the machinations of the faceless and unelected people who are really &#8216;in power&#8217; nationally.</p>
<p>I have had to go on at some length to give a picture of what is happening in just one part of the country &#8211; but outside London &#8211; but hope that it illustrates the need for a wider-based organisation than we have been able to generate until now. </p>
<p>Perhaps 38degrees will satisfy that need and your approach will be discussed at our next meeting &#8211; and adapting the old slogan &#8220;think global, act local&#8221; may seem appropriate.</p>
<p>In democracy,<br />
Mick Williams,<br />
Convenor, D4S.</p>
<p>MISSION STATEMENT.<br />
Democracy4Stoke exists to co-ordinate and support the efforts<br />
of those (of all political persuasions and none) who seek to<br />
establish a form of governance for the area which is<br />
decent, honest and legal and which truly reflects<br />
the wishes of its citizens.</p>
<p>&#8230;..informed, rational decisions &#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Maurice Frank</title>
		<link>http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2009/07/14/there-are-now-over-10000-of-us/comment-page-5/#comment-467</link>
		<dc:creator>Maurice Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 16:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/?p=58#comment-467</guid>
		<description>If we only have one MP, they might be a nasty one, esp in their attitude to inconvenient minorities, or to causes that are unheard in the media. There is every possibility that we can&#039;t turn to them when in diifficulty. The eggs in several baskets, resulting from having a plural humber of representatives for the same seat, is important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we only have one MP, they might be a nasty one, esp in their attitude to inconvenient minorities, or to causes that are unheard in the media. There is every possibility that we can&#8217;t turn to them when in diifficulty. The eggs in several baskets, resulting from having a plural humber of representatives for the same seat, is important.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Vickerman</title>
		<link>http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2009/07/14/there-are-now-over-10000-of-us/comment-page-5/#comment-459</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Vickerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 21:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/?p=58#comment-459</guid>
		<description>The real difficulty in making any reform in the political system is that it can only be constitutionally effected by the very politicians who have such a strong personal interest in leaving things as little disturbed as possible.  With this in mind I suggest the following, which might at least have some chance of being accepted.

OUTLINE OF PROPOSALS FOR A REVISED METHOD OF ELECTION OF MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS

Edward A. Vickerman                                                                                                   August 2009


Many authorities think that the present chamber is rather too large.  It is here suggested that the number of members be reduced to 500.

The Boundaries Commission will divide the country into 400 constituencies of approximately equal population.  At a General Election each of these will return one Member of Parliament by the “first past the post” system used at present.  

Before an election the political parties will publish ordered national lists of general candidates.   When the votes have been counted candidates elected will be deleted from the general lists.  The so far unrepresented votes, that is to say all votes for candidates not elected, together with the majorities over the next candidate gained by successful candidates, will be counted nationally according to their party affiliations.  The 100 as yet unallocated seats will be shared between the party lists according to their proportional share of unrepresented votes.

This scheme is a compromise between the present arrangements and full proportional representation.  It ensures continuance of the “Constituency MP”, someone to whom any member of the population may turn when in difficulty.  It also ensures that as far as possible every vote is worthwhile, even in a constituency where one party always has a large majority.

Notes

1.         The Constituency MPs will bear an extra workload and might be recompensed accordingly by a salary benefit of in the order of £20-30 000.  They could also be discouraged from undertaking outside employment by a limit to further earnings, 
perhaps £20 000 would be appropriate here also.

2.         General list members would be better able to understand life outside politics if they had outside interests and no earnings limit need apply to them.

3.         Although not essential, consideration should be given to holding primary elections in constituencies, so that candidates there could not be dictated from a party’s national headquarters, which would have full control over the national lists.

4.         This scheme does not consider the powers and respon-sibilities of MPs, such as the anomaly that some MPs can vote on issues which do not affect their own constituents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The real difficulty in making any reform in the political system is that it can only be constitutionally effected by the very politicians who have such a strong personal interest in leaving things as little disturbed as possible.  With this in mind I suggest the following, which might at least have some chance of being accepted.</p>
<p>OUTLINE OF PROPOSALS FOR A REVISED METHOD OF ELECTION OF MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS</p>
<p>Edward A. Vickerman                                                                                                   August 2009</p>
<p>Many authorities think that the present chamber is rather too large.  It is here suggested that the number of members be reduced to 500.</p>
<p>The Boundaries Commission will divide the country into 400 constituencies of approximately equal population.  At a General Election each of these will return one Member of Parliament by the “first past the post” system used at present.  </p>
<p>Before an election the political parties will publish ordered national lists of general candidates.   When the votes have been counted candidates elected will be deleted from the general lists.  The so far unrepresented votes, that is to say all votes for candidates not elected, together with the majorities over the next candidate gained by successful candidates, will be counted nationally according to their party affiliations.  The 100 as yet unallocated seats will be shared between the party lists according to their proportional share of unrepresented votes.</p>
<p>This scheme is a compromise between the present arrangements and full proportional representation.  It ensures continuance of the “Constituency MP”, someone to whom any member of the population may turn when in difficulty.  It also ensures that as far as possible every vote is worthwhile, even in a constituency where one party always has a large majority.</p>
<p>Notes</p>
<p>1.         The Constituency MPs will bear an extra workload and might be recompensed accordingly by a salary benefit of in the order of £20-30 000.  They could also be discouraged from undertaking outside employment by a limit to further earnings,<br />
perhaps £20 000 would be appropriate here also.</p>
<p>2.         General list members would be better able to understand life outside politics if they had outside interests and no earnings limit need apply to them.</p>
<p>3.         Although not essential, consideration should be given to holding primary elections in constituencies, so that candidates there could not be dictated from a party’s national headquarters, which would have full control over the national lists.</p>
<p>4.         This scheme does not consider the powers and respon-sibilities of MPs, such as the anomaly that some MPs can vote on issues which do not affect their own constituents.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Barraclough</title>
		<link>http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2009/07/14/there-are-now-over-10000-of-us/comment-page-5/#comment-453</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Barraclough</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 13:14:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/?p=58#comment-453</guid>
		<description>Withthe election less than a year away, I feel we should be thinking about the questions which will best demonstrate a real change of heart amongst candiates. I would suggest that among them be, if elected; 
1: The average full time earnings in Britain in 2008 was very little over £31k. Are you prepared to represent your constituents for the present MPs&#039; salary [of £64k+] and not to seek enrichment in the office?
2: Will you be prepared to answer to your constituents at frequent and regular public meetings throughout your term, and submit yourself to re-selection, or re-election, if called upon by a majority vote in such a meeting? 
3: Do you support a referendum on Britain&#039;s further or deeper involvement in Europe, including the adoption / rejection of the Lisbon [Consitution] Treaty, and be committed to acting in accordance with your constituents&#039; decision as expressed in such a referendum?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Withthe election less than a year away, I feel we should be thinking about the questions which will best demonstrate a real change of heart amongst candiates. I would suggest that among them be, if elected;<br />
1: The average full time earnings in Britain in 2008 was very little over £31k. Are you prepared to represent your constituents for the present MPs&#8217; salary [of £64k+] and not to seek enrichment in the office?<br />
2: Will you be prepared to answer to your constituents at frequent and regular public meetings throughout your term, and submit yourself to re-selection, or re-election, if called upon by a majority vote in such a meeting?<br />
3: Do you support a referendum on Britain&#8217;s further or deeper involvement in Europe, including the adoption / rejection of the Lisbon [Consitution] Treaty, and be committed to acting in accordance with your constituents&#8217; decision as expressed in such a referendum?</p>
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		<title>By: Gladys Edmonds</title>
		<link>http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2009/07/14/there-are-now-over-10000-of-us/comment-page-5/#comment-435</link>
		<dc:creator>Gladys Edmonds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 10:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/?p=58#comment-435</guid>
		<description>There is not enough democracy in our country. The voice of the ordinary citizen is always overlooked. The way the political system works at the moment means that most people&#039;s vote does not count.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is not enough democracy in our country. The voice of the ordinary citizen is always overlooked. The way the political system works at the moment means that most people&#8217;s vote does not count.</p>
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		<title>By: Stella Ridgway</title>
		<link>http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2009/07/14/there-are-now-over-10000-of-us/comment-page-5/#comment-434</link>
		<dc:creator>Stella Ridgway</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/?p=58#comment-434</guid>
		<description>I signed on and got involved because I feel it is important for ordinary men and women to have their voice hreard - I do not think we should have gone into Iraq and I do not feel we should be in afghanistan, nor allowing teh US airforce to send drones over the Pakistan. I was directed here from Stop the war Coaltion to sign teh petition against holing teh Iraq enquiry in secret and I am currently getting signatures on that petition to Bring the Troops home. Keep up the good work - people united, we can never be defeated!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I signed on and got involved because I feel it is important for ordinary men and women to have their voice hreard &#8211; I do not think we should have gone into Iraq and I do not feel we should be in afghanistan, nor allowing teh US airforce to send drones over the Pakistan. I was directed here from Stop the war Coaltion to sign teh petition against holing teh Iraq enquiry in secret and I am currently getting signatures on that petition to Bring the Troops home. Keep up the good work &#8211; people united, we can never be defeated!</p>
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		<title>By: Belinda</title>
		<link>http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2009/07/14/there-are-now-over-10000-of-us/comment-page-5/#comment-433</link>
		<dc:creator>Belinda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 18:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/?p=58#comment-433</guid>
		<description>Well done on reaching 10K in 7 weeks. Keep up the good work, and let&#039;s try to have 100K by the end of the year.
I&#039;d like to suggest that 38 degrees focus its immediate campaigning actions on Parliamentary reform - with the objective of turning an ineffective democracy into a more transparent and responsive and accountable one. I&#039;d also like us to focus more heat on financial services reform. Darling&#039;s efforts over the last few weeks does not progress the need for stronger regulation of financial services (banks, private equity firms, mortgage companies, etc.) and effective curbs on corporate greed and risk-taking (which we as taxpayers and savers then have to pay for).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done on reaching 10K in 7 weeks. Keep up the good work, and let&#8217;s try to have 100K by the end of the year.<br />
I&#8217;d like to suggest that 38 degrees focus its immediate campaigning actions on Parliamentary reform &#8211; with the objective of turning an ineffective democracy into a more transparent and responsive and accountable one. I&#8217;d also like us to focus more heat on financial services reform. Darling&#8217;s efforts over the last few weeks does not progress the need for stronger regulation of financial services (banks, private equity firms, mortgage companies, etc.) and effective curbs on corporate greed and risk-taking (which we as taxpayers and savers then have to pay for).</p>
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		<title>By: John SLADE</title>
		<link>http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2009/07/14/there-are-now-over-10000-of-us/comment-page-5/#comment-431</link>
		<dc:creator>John SLADE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 16:25:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/?p=58#comment-431</guid>
		<description>It is good to see a pressure group that hopefully make a change in British politics. The time has come for people to have their say in the decisions of politicians and make manifestos by them a contract to the people.I would also like to see on a election the elected MP take out a contract with the electorate in keeping within the standards expected of them.I find it a honour to be able to express my concerns with like minded people</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is good to see a pressure group that hopefully make a change in British politics. The time has come for people to have their say in the decisions of politicians and make manifestos by them a contract to the people.I would also like to see on a election the elected MP take out a contract with the electorate in keeping within the standards expected of them.I find it a honour to be able to express my concerns with like minded people</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Read</title>
		<link>http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2009/07/14/there-are-now-over-10000-of-us/comment-page-5/#comment-429</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Read</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 10:19:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/?p=58#comment-429</guid>
		<description>I want to see every penny of MP&#039;s expenses. If there is so much as one line blacked out it must be concealing abuse of public  (our) money. 

That is what I want 38 Degrees to focus upon please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to see every penny of MP&#8217;s expenses. If there is so much as one line blacked out it must be concealing abuse of public  (our) money. </p>
<p>That is what I want 38 Degrees to focus upon please.</p>
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