There are now over 10,000 of us

http://www.maturetimes.co.uk/node/9064
IK heartily recommend reading this article by Terry Waite to all.

OK, 10,000, big deal.

Was 38 degrees overdue ?

No, it had already happened here in Stoke in 2002 when we formed an organisation (democracy4stoke) which fought against the provisions of the 2000 Loc Gov Act (which sought to impose the US-inspired directly elected mayoral system on us).

We lost the first referendum but continued a watching brief until our re-launch in 2006 when we embarked on a campaign to get enough signatures (coincidentally, also 10,000) on a petition to force another referendum.

This was presented to Phil Woolas in January 2007 and we were told that the legislative prescriptions were "not set in stone".

Alas, neither was that particular minister's brief, and his replacement (John Healey) ignored that particular commitment.

Indeed, the Government had set up a 'Governance Commission', infested with 'patsies', which produced a report to broadly support the conclusions of the 2000 and the 2007 Acts.

However, we (D4S) persevered and persuaded the Council to hold a referendum last October - which we won by a 2:1 ratio.

This led to the creation of a 'Transition Board' to 'oversee' the recommendations of the Commission. This was (again) stuffed with people who would nod through the wishes of central government against those of the local citizens.

The abolition of the directly-elected mayoral system led to the Leader/Cabinet model which took over on June 8th with the Leader of the Tory/Independent Group (with 8 out of the 60 councillors) as Council Leader. And although the Government calls for more 'diversity' we feel that with no less than 8 political groups we are diverse enough ! (No-one is giving odds on how long this will last !)

Now a 'consultation' has just started, being conducted by the Boundary Committee, to determine just how many councillors we need. This will be followed by further exercises to give the number of wards and how many councillors in each ("cart", "horse" and "before" come to mind).

Needless to say these figures will comply with the favoured option of whichever policy wonk at the centre is in fashion. However, it is too early to say whether the replacement of Hazel Blears by John Denham will make much difference.

Democracy4Stoke (D4S) is monitoring and submitting to these various processes but is finding very little attention from central government or the agencies which are tasked with conducting the exercise. This is despite the fact that we quite demonstrably speak for the people of the area and enjoy support from people of all parties and none.

We do take some inspiration from the situation in Blaenau Gwent where a successful 'People's Voice' organisation has confounded the machinations of the faceless and unelected people who are really 'in power' nationally.

I have had to go on at some length to give a picture of what is happening in just one part of the country - but outside London - but hope that it illustrates the need for a wider-based organisation than we have been able to generate until now.

Perhaps 38degrees will satisfy that need and your approach will be discussed at our next meeting - and adapting the old slogan "think global, act local" may seem appropriate.

In democracy,
Mick Williams,
Convenor, D4S.

MISSION STATEMENT.
Democracy4Stoke exists to co-ordinate and support the efforts
of those (of all political persuasions and none) who seek to
establish a form of governance for the area which is
decent, honest and legal and which truly reflects
the wishes of its citizens.

.....informed, rational decisions ....

If we only have one MP, they might be a nasty one, esp in their attitude to inconvenient minorities, or to causes that are unheard in the media. There is every possibility that we can't turn to them when in diifficulty. The eggs in several baskets, resulting from having a plural humber of representatives for the same seat, is important.

The real difficulty in making any reform in the political system is that it can only be constitutionally effected by the very politicians who have such a strong personal interest in leaving things as little disturbed as possible. With this in mind I suggest the following, which might at least have some chance of being accepted.

OUTLINE OF PROPOSALS FOR A REVISED METHOD OF ELECTION OF MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS

Edward A. Vickerman August 2009


Many authorities think that the present chamber is rather too large. It is here suggested that the number of members be reduced to 500.

The Boundaries Commission will divide the country into 400 constituencies of approximately equal population. At a General Election each of these will return one Member of Parliament by the “first past the post” system used at present.

Before an election the political parties will publish ordered national lists of general candidates. When the votes have been counted candidates elected will be deleted from the general lists. The so far unrepresented votes, that is to say all votes for candidates not elected, together with the majorities over the next candidate gained by successful candidates, will be counted nationally according to their party affiliations. The 100 as yet unallocated seats will be shared between the party lists according to their proportional share of unrepresented votes.

This scheme is a compromise between the present arrangements and full proportional representation. It ensures continuance of the “Constituency MP”, someone to whom any member of the population may turn when in difficulty. It also ensures that as far as possible every vote is worthwhile, even in a constituency where one party always has a large majority.

Notes

1. The Constituency MPs will bear an extra workload and might be recompensed accordingly by a salary benefit of in the order of £20-30 000. They could also be discouraged from undertaking outside employment by a limit to further earnings,
perhaps £20 000 would be appropriate here also.

2. General list members would be better able to understand life outside politics if they had outside interests and no earnings limit need apply to them.

3. Although not essential, consideration should be given to holding primary elections in constituencies, so that candidates there could not be dictated from a party’s national headquarters, which would have full control over the national lists.

4. This scheme does not consider the powers and respon-sibilities of MPs, such as the anomaly that some MPs can vote on issues which do not affect their own constituents.

Withthe election less than a year away, I feel we should be thinking about the questions which will best demonstrate a real change of heart amongst candiates. I would suggest that among them be, if elected;
1: The average full time earnings in Britain in 2008 was very little over £31k. Are you prepared to represent your constituents for the present MPs' salary [of £64k+] and not to seek enrichment in the office?
2: Will you be prepared to answer to your constituents at frequent and regular public meetings throughout your term, and submit yourself to re-selection, or re-election, if called upon by a majority vote in such a meeting?
3: Do you support a referendum on Britain's further or deeper involvement in Europe, including the adoption / rejection of the Lisbon [Consitution] Treaty, and be committed to acting in accordance with your constituents' decision as expressed in such a referendum?

There is not enough democracy in our country. The voice of the ordinary citizen is always overlooked. The way the political system works at the moment means that most people's vote does not count.

I signed on and got involved because I feel it is important for ordinary men and women to have their voice hreard - I do not think we should have gone into Iraq and I do not feel we should be in afghanistan, nor allowing teh US airforce to send drones over the Pakistan. I was directed here from Stop the war Coaltion to sign teh petition against holing teh Iraq enquiry in secret and I am currently getting signatures on that petition to Bring the Troops home. Keep up the good work - people united, we can never be defeated!

Well done on reaching 10K in 7 weeks. Keep up the good work, and let's try to have 100K by the end of the year.
I'd like to suggest that 38 degrees focus its immediate campaigning actions on Parliamentary reform - with the objective of turning an ineffective democracy into a more transparent and responsive and accountable one. I'd also like us to focus more heat on financial services reform. Darling's efforts over the last few weeks does not progress the need for stronger regulation of financial services (banks, private equity firms, mortgage companies, etc.) and effective curbs on corporate greed and risk-taking (which we as taxpayers and savers then have to pay for).

It is good to see a pressure group that hopefully make a change in British politics. The time has come for people to have their say in the decisions of politicians and make manifestos by them a contract to the people.I would also like to see on a election the elected MP take out a contract with the electorate in keeping within the standards expected of them.I find it a honour to be able to express my concerns with like minded people

I want to see every penny of MP's expenses. If there is so much as one line blacked out it must be concealing abuse of public (our) money.

That is what I want 38 Degrees to focus upon please.

Being 79, an ex regular soldier, I worry about my country,England.Having Scots as PM,Chancellor etc and a Scot,Cameron, leading the opposition, my MP Desmond ANGUS Swayne is a Scot,I live in the New Forest. My MP has blocked my emails because I pester him. All I want is a fair and equal deal for my family. The Scots,Irish,Welsh all have or are going to have, free prescriptions(is it fair wealthy people in these countries have free ones,poor people in England have to pay)Free university education in Scotland, English young people come out with thousands of pounds of debt. All the present talk of care and the payment of same for elderly people.NO MENTION OF THE FACT THAT SCOTS GET IT FREE NOW. ENGLISH OLD PEOPLE HAVE TO SELL THEIR HOUSES. How can you trust these people to run our country, or to run the opposition party.All these people profess to believe in God but they do not believe in fair play.We the English have no voice in the press or TV/radio, We the English are called British,the others in this(Union)are called by their countries name ie if you live in Scotland you are Scottish.I DO NOT support the BNP but I am beginning to see why they are getting support. First of all we need a level playing field, where everyone is treated the same. I donn`t think the previously mentioned Scots can supply this.If you pray, then pray you are born Scottish,Irish or Welsh Not English.

A BIG THANK YOU TO THE 38 DEGREES TEAM for building this new and powerful community.

Together we can create the AVALANCHE required to bury the burnt out parliamentary system that the nation has suffered from for far too long.
All political parties and all politicians are now under an extremely large spot light. Their every move is being very closely monitored by an enraged nation. But all thanks must go to the disgraceful behaviour displayed by numerous members of the house that the media has brought to our attention recently. Without this self inflicted injury we would still be in the dark, nothing would be changing, the lies and underhand activities would still pass unchecked.

Now as a nation we have them all where WE want them along with their undivided attention.

We must give our full, unfaltering support to the 38 DEGREES TEAM, keep the large spot light firmly switched on pointing in the right direction and maintain the pressure and momentum that we have created so far.

REFORM THE HOUSE WITH MPs DEVOTED TO SERVICE

It is astonishing that without the freedom of the press the electorate in May 2009 was as ignorant of MPs expenses as the serfs of old. Public disgust has been unprecedented.

The 50 plus MPs who have done good work and deliberately and knowingly complied with the letter and spirit of the expenses system (Ref 1) deserve commendation and full support. What a great example for young and old alike. On the other hand the 450 plus MPs who deliberately and knowingly did not follow the example of the honorable 50 plus do not deserve trust or support and should pay the price for their greed by standing down, deselection or removal from office.

There is no excuse whatsoever for making multiple wrong claims. (Ref 2) One or two possibly yes, more than two wrong claims, no. This could be the criterion for standing down, deselection or removal from office.

No person in their right mind would trust or employ a greedy person known to have deliberately and knowingly ignored either the letter or the spirit of an expenses system. Why should the electorate?

From June 2007 New Labour headed by Gordon Brown has by incompetency been paving its way to loosing the next general election in 2009-2010. However Her Majesty’s Official Opposition led by David Cameron is helping to reverse this process by cronyism and paying lip service to public disgust over MPs expenses.

In 1653 Huntingdon MP Oliver Cromwell dismissed wayward MPs, addressing them thus “You have sat here too long for the good you do. In the name of God, go!”

Now as in 1653 the country is in need of dependable Members devoted to service to reform the House, effect good government and advise and help constituents. Current MPs, especially Party Leaders, being part of the problem are not the solution. Mass apologies and paybacks are debasing and no substitute for a record of transparency, honesty and truth.

Fortunately internet technology enables the electorate as a whole to act as a modern day Oliver Cromwell and cleanse parliament without fear or favour.

If you wish to help restore trust in Parliament, no matter which party or individual you support, lobby your local constituency party, family, friends and acquaintances to sponsor and support only candidates who have shown that they are capable, honest and hardworking.

At the General Election vote only for candidates who have shown themselves to be capable, honest and hardworking.

Do not support or vote for MPs who have not abided by the letter and spirit of the MPs expenses system. (Ref 1)

There are many capable people ready willing and able throughout the land who deserve and have earned our trust and vote.

If you agree, be a modern day Oliver Cromwell act and pass this email on to family, friends, neighbours, acquaintances, councillors and local constituency parties.

REFERENCES

(Ref 1) The Green Book – July 2006, Parliamentary Salaries, Allowances and Pensions Use of Parliamentary allowances.
Page 3 reads
“It is your responsibility to satisfy yourself when you submit a claim, or authorise payments from your staffing allowance, that any expenditure claimed from the allowances has been wholly, exclusively and necessarily incurred for the purpose of performing your Parliamentary duties.”

(Ref 2)

The House of Commons Members’ Reimbursement.
Form C1 (03/05) INCIDENTAL EXPENSES PROVISION.
An Authorisation and Declaration is to be made by members as follows: “I claim reimbursement of these costs which I incurred wholly, exclusively and necessarily in the performance of my Parliamentary duties.”

REFORM THE HOUSE WITH MPs DEVOTED TO SERVICE

It is astonishing that without the freedom of the press the electorate in May 2009 was as ignorant of MPs expenses as the serfs of old. Public disgust has been unprecedented.

The 50 plus MPs who have done good work and deliberately and knowingly complied with the letter and spirit of the expenses system (Ref 1) deserve commendation and full support. What a great example for young and old alike. On the other hand the 450 plus MPs who deliberately and knowingly did not follow the example of the honorable 50 plus do not deserve trust or support and should pay the price for their greed by standing down, deselection or removal from office.

There is no excuse whatsoever for making multiple wrong claims. (Ref 2) One or two possibly yes, more than two wrong claims, no. This could be the criterion for standing down, deselection or removal from office.

No person in their right mind would trust or employ a greedy person known to have deliberately and knowingly ignored either the letter or the spirit of an expenses system. Why should the electorate?

From June 2007 New Labour headed by Gordon Brown has by incompetency been paving its way to loosing the next general election in 2009-2010. However Her Majesty’s Official Opposition led by David Cameron is helping to reverse this process by cronyism and paying lip service to public disgust over MPs expenses.

In 1653 Huntingdon MP Oliver Cromwell dismissed wayward MPs, addressing them thus “You have sat here too long for the good you do. In the name of God, go!”

Now as in 1653 the country is in need of dependable Members devoted to service to reform the House, effect good government and advise and help constituents. Current MPs, especially Party Leaders, being part of the problem are not the solution. Mass apologies and paybacks are debasing and no substitute for a record of transparency, honesty and truth.

Fortunately internet technology enables the electorate as a whole to act as a modern day Oliver Cromwell and cleanse parliament without fear or favour.

If you wish to help restore trust in Parliament, no matter which party or individual you support, lobby your local constituency party, family, friends and acquaintances to sponsor and support only candidates who have shown that they are capable, honest and hardworking.

At the General Election vote only for candidates who have shown themselves to be capable, honest and hardworking.

Do not support or vote for MPs who have not abided by the letter and spirit of the MPs expenses system. (Ref 1)

There are many capable people ready willing and able throughout the land who deserve and have earned our trust and vote.

If you agree, be a modern day Oliver Cromwell act and pass this email on to family, friends, neighbours, acquaintances, councillors and local constituency parties.


REFERENCES

(Ref 1) The Green Book – July 2006, Parliamentary Salaries, Allowances and Pensions Use of Parliamentary allowances.
Page 3 reads
“It is your responsibility to satisfy yourself when you submit a claim, or authorise payments from your staffing allowance, that any expenditure claimed from the allowances has been wholly, exclusively and necessarily incurred for the purpose of performing your Parliamentary duties.”

(Ref 2)

The House of Commons Members’ Reimbursement.
Form C1 (03/05) INCIDENTAL EXPENSES PROVISION.
An Authorisation and Declaration is to be made by members as follows: “I claim reimbursement of these costs which I incurred wholly, exclusively and necessarily in the performance of my Parliamentary duties.”

Congratulations on 10k members (not 'followers!),
How about following up a suggestion posted earlier and encourage all of the current members to recruit/persuade ten friends to sign up as well ! The weight of opinion thus demonstrated will be a powerful agent for change as the Obama campaign demonstrated.
The issues around political accountability as mentioned in many postings are the ones that need concentrating upon,this includes the undue influence of commercial interests via lobbying.
People power exerted via the internet is the way of the future,we need to be vigilant in its early stages that it is not hijacked by corporate or government interests.
So get out there and tell the people you know who are in sympathy with 38 degs. !

Well done; it is a great idea to harness the internet in this way and it is good to see that people can make themselves heard when they join together.

Change is long overdue and political reform, so that everyone can join in is necessary, true democracy, which technology makes possible, as you are demonstrating with this site.

I would like to see radical change, including abolishing the established political party system, (which has degenerated to the level of a chidish playground quarrel) and replacing the House of Lords with on online discussion and voting system so that on legislation that the majority approve is passed.

The very way that your system is working proves that this is possible and you have to be congratulated on the way you have set this up.

Thank you

Jane

So far as the House of Lords is concerned, don't forget they do, at times, put the brake on a bill being rushed through, and can veto it. Agreed that they are an expense we could do without, but some sort of 'second chamber' is not a bad thing per se.
Parliamentary Whips: marked an exam question in A Level on this topic recently, and it got me thinking. Obviously Whips have a function, to organise the business of the House, remind MPs to attend important votes and so on, and ALSO to toe the party line - this might be an advantage if rogue MPs were tempted to vote simply in their own interests or the narrow interests of their particular constituency, and not to the benefit of the whole country.
HOWEVER, to expel MPs for defying the 3-line whip votes is appalling, and makes a mockery of democracy; an MP has every right to vote a different way than her/his party wants if it is truly a matter of conscience - e.g. Robin Cook in the Iraq War vote. It might be a matter of strong disapproval by the party leaders, but it should NOT affect an MP's career.
I think this system alone needs reforming, so that our MPs are not afraid to vote according to conscience on occasion, and need not risk their livelihood. That decision clearly took its toll on Robin Cook; he died of a heart attack not long afterwards. Nobody should be put under this kind of stress because they disagree with their party's policy on a particular issue.
If the Whips were not so powerful, I wonder how many MPs might have felt able to vote against the extradition issue?

The bus pass should be valid wherever you travel in the British Isles. As it was a Government initiative all the bill should be picked up by central government too and none of it should be a burden on the local rate payer.

Until the extradition treaty with the United States is ratified by them we should not comply with their requests for extradition.

Congratulations. I would like to see far more tangible demonstrations of public disquiet regarding the state's erosion of our human and democraric rights. In fact I consider it farcical that we perceive ourselves as living in a modern democracy. There are many countries throughout the world where the populace have far more freedom and access to information than we have in the UK. We are more of a police state than we are aware. Think about what we can actually do in our lives without the state enforcing us to comply to laws, rules and regulations. It's far less than you think! I'm not saying that society doesn't need some form of agreed codes but the prevalence of every aspect of our lives under state control and or surveillance I find incredibly disquietening.

I think you are doing a great job in informing those in Parliament of the feelings of the electorate who feel distinctly discounted. Well done for bringing the disatisfactions [of which there are many] of the electorate into focus.

Congrats on reaching the 10K milestone. My hope is that your site continues to grow, and that you (the organization) remain impartial and constantly strive to return real democracy to those for whom governments are elected. So many issues are needing tackled, and with the will of the people now needing to be heard as much as ever, this may be a way forward.

After learning what dastardly deeds these so called Public Servants are up to - especially their fraudulent use of Taxpayers Money - I felt it was time to act! There was a mention of your organisation in an article I read in the 'Daily Mail'. I signed up that day.
I think that most right minded people feel let down, ripped off and fleeced by these money grabbing MP's, and that they should all be arrested and charged for their crimes. I work in a Bank, and if I had behaved in this way I would be sacked!!
This scandal is by no means the only gripe, there are many others, and it's only by standing together with others who have similar views that anything will change.
The man in the street cannot do this alone.
Well done, and more power to all our elbows!!
Keep up the good work.

Liz

Well Done!
We must however never get complacent,
as I write the gross injustices around the world and in our
own country continue to happen. We have a greatly flawed XPM -
Blair - slithering his way to possibly even greater power -
president of Europe no less, should we just sit back and let this happen?
I REALLY HOPE NOT!

Feedback to you .. well done.

You're close to democratic concerns (I've had the opportunity to discuss the 'blood, sweat & tears' of it all now since Magna Carta on a couple of occasions recently) and you're enabling a credible and quick response.

We and others know that the next 12 months precursor a milestone in this country's history (again! .. every 5 yrs it's the same) .. :)

.. thank you for providing a platform for my voice in support of a more accountable democracy in the years to come.

Is there a Forum possible here pls?

David Allen

I am so glad to be a part of 38 Degrees and if you get to enough
people you will find the whole Country joining you. The people
do not know enough about the EU and the terrible directives we are subject all 32,000 from them which are changing the face of England. The £40,000.000.00 paid each day to the EU. when the people of England know the full extent of the EU more people will vote.
The accounts have not been signed off ever and millions of Euros are missing - where we can only guess. These people are unelected and have no knowledge of of the positions they hold. But they like the huge salaries and expenses they receive at our expense.
We must aim to educate the people in the Uk and GET OUT OF EUROPE WHICH WE ARE IN ILLEGALLY, THE BILL OF RIGHTS SAID THE PEOPLE MUST BE ALLOWED TO VOTE AND IF THEY SAY NO IT MEANS NO.
WE CAN BE ARRESTED IN OUR BEDS AND CARTED OFF TO EUROPE
IN THE DEAD OF NIGHT FOR SOMETHING WE DID OR DID NOT DO IN EUROPE WHEN WE WERE ON HOLIDAY AND THROWN IN JAIL FOR AN INDETERMINABLE TIME UNTIL WE ARE TRIED. DO WE WANT THIS I DO NOT THINK SO.
IT IS TIME ENGLAND IS ONCE AGAIN THE COUNTRY WE ALL KNEW AND WERE PROUND OF AND A COUNTRY WE ARE IN CHARGE OF.

GOOD LUCK .

A tremendous achievement to have grown so rapidly in so short a time. I am chastened by the realization that this achievement is also an overwhelming indictment of the UK political system and all those within it. The erosion of our political freedoms and the criminalization of an ever growing number of people from motorists with minor convictions to OAP's who refuse to pay excessive, although legal council tax demands, is an outrage. What to do next? Create a political instrument which will genuinely empower people giving them the means to regain control of their lives, foster a true sense of community and restore respect for our social institutions. I wish you all success.

Great start! Keep up the pressure for reform.
The most fundamental reform needed now is a reform of the electoral system itself. All too often our present first past the post system becomes a job for life for the incumbent MP. This can lead to complacency and, as we have recently seen, corruption! With a system based on multi member constituencies and voters expressing their preferences then we can actually start to select candidates within each party according to who is most likely to "perform". It also gives us the means to see them off if they don't! This will not be popular with the major parties as it opens the door to local campaigning alternatives. But that is exactly what 38 Degrees must be about if it is to make a big impact.
All strength to our elbow!

My big idea is about a technical enabler for true democracy:

It is often said that we live in a democracy. In fact we are described as subjects of our Queen rather than citizens, and the system of government is described as a constitutional monarchy.

However, we don't have a formal written constitution as it is simply the sum of the laws and regulations of the country and the monarchy has no real power other than a right of veto on Acts of Parliament, which, if ever used, would be swiftly terminated.

The original Greek idea of Direct Democracy had everyone (unless they were slaves, women, etc.) vote for everything. As usual, the implementation does not reach the ideal, but it is a lot better than our Representative democracy where we have to select a person for 5 years who hopefully will work to implement the things we want.

In practice our government specialises in implementing the things we don't want, like Poll Tax, because their agenda is not the same as ours. Politicians want power (remember the saying that if voting changed anything it would be banned?) and their main concern is to retain it. Even where they seem to be doing what we would like as with Robin Cook's 'ethical dimension to foreign policy', the outcome simply underlines the fact that a dimension can be very small or even imaginary.

So, because we are now in the 21st century and are a sophisticated and mature society (well, for the sake of argument, just humour me), lets consider updating our system of election to try and rediscover some original ideals with up-to-date technology. And, hopefully, to re-engage those people self-disenfranchised by disillusionment as well as those who vanished off the electoral role to avoid the Poll Tax.

Now, one is never going to please everybody, and the first requirement of my proposal is an ID system. But rather than muddy the water with ideas of promoting the War on Terror, I would use the existing National Insurance system. Clean the database of everyone who is dead (another limitation of democracy - the dead are not allowed to vote!), expunge all duplications and dubious entries (long overdue, I'll bet) and ensure that everyone of 18 years and above who is a UK citizen (not a subject) has an NI number.

Once the database is right, you can then allocate a password/code which the holder can then change to suit their personal taste/memory and not a 4-digit number either - let them use words, names, dates, etc. Notice no card or biometrics at this stage!

Now, the technical bit: It will not have escaped your notice that there are 'Chip & Pin' terminals everywhere. These can be your voting booths. Just key in your NI number and passcode and then vote. So, you're away from home? Just go to the nearest shop! You can't get out? Well, use your telephone (land line or mobile). You're on holiday or business abroad? Just use the phone.

Now, here is where it gets interesting. The key is in the word vote. Vote for (or against) everything, not for a person who can then ignore you unchallengeably for the next 5 years. Come on, it's not that radical, they do it for Big Brother!

The role of elected politicians would be, as now, to dream up ways of improving matters. They would then submit the resulting Bill not to such historical relics as the Lords or The Queen but to the people. Government of the people, by the people, for the people made fact, at last. And, of course, this must apply to the European Union as well, so no more grandiose schemes such as a Constitution that not even committed Europeans such as the French or the Dutch could swallow.

Checks and balances? Well, the most effective would be a mechanism to advise if your vote has already been used (fraud). This would be discovered by the system not accepting your genuine attempt to vote. The system would then allow you to challenge and delete whatever the fraudster had done and trigger an automatic investigation (like where or by what means the fraudulent vote had been cast). Perhaps the use of back-up information such as mother's maiden name or first school as already is the practice in on-line banking.

Use of biometrics would enhance the security of the system, once these technologies can be demonstrated to be reliable.

And the secret ballot - difficult to guarantee if you're using the phone, but then postal voting isn't secure, either. And there will always be some who can't get to a 'polling station'. Maybe the answer is to strictly limit phone voting to those bed-ridden, not those who can't be bothered to step outdoors.

So, let's have a debate about this - I'm keen to hear from anyone who is dissatisfied with the present system of electoral representation. And let's make a fuss - because that's what gets politicians interested.

Kenarf@aol.com

Ken Grayling
Miacre
Church Road
Tharston
Norfolk
NR15 2YG


Democracy for 21st Century People

I was heartened when I first learnt that 10k people had signed up to 38 Degrees. However, upon reflection, given the vast number of web-savvy UK citizens, what I imagine to be the unprecedented disatisifaction with Parliament and the viral-fast potential of communication by e-mail I felt that number should be a 100k - if not a million!

And I think I know why. It's our stupefaction and apathy.


To so many of us, particularly the under 45s, Government post-Thatcher has become so 'spun' and inalienable that the general consensus has adopted the mantra of "What's the point of voting?" And yet look at how we spend hours on Twitter, Facebook, Beebo, other chat sites and will post reviews on a new toaster or blog about gear ratios on bicycles!! It's not as if we don't have opinions. But these are either small, specialised and often materialistic concerns or personal emotional ones. They are seldom societal or community-based.

38's, Holy Grail, as far as I am concerned, is therefore to break that malaise; to press the right buttons of the apathetic so that they believe it is worth voting, campaigning, petitioning etc. I had hoped that 38's timing was perfect but I am now fearful that as the recession (but not the debts) starts to fade so too will the nascent sense of revolution.

Please continue to bang on about injustices, lack of accountability (Iraq!) and our government's lies and spin. I'm right behind you - but more in hope than expectation.

Good luck.

Congratulations on the 10,000 members milestone, and my best wishes to you to continue campaigning, increasing that figure, and above all, raising political awarenes. It is encouraging to see that there are others around who think like-wise and are interested to support campaigns dealing with very varied issues.

Congratulations on such a successful start to what could be a major step on the road to achieving responsible government. 10,000 members in such a short time is amazing. It just shows the levels of dissatisfaction many people feel towards government and big business. As things are governments of all shades waste huge amounts of our money through a total lack of joined up thinking.

1. We need to make serious moves towards saving the environment. Why then are we having yet another runway at Heathrow? Why more roadbuilding instead of more cycle lanes and pedestrian friendly areas?

2. Why spend money encouraging older people to remain healthy and live longer while begrudging them a decent pension?

3. Why encourage older people to remain in employment longer while young people are unemployed?

4. Why have prestige projects like Trident when our troops are dying in Afghanistan for want of basic equipment?

5. Why tax people whose wage is so inadequate that vast armies are employed calculating the benefits they require to survive?

I could go on for hours but there are probably no answers.
Liz

I think there's a huge democratic deficit in the UK and something needs to be done about it which is why I signed up to 38 Degrees. We need to redress the power relationships between the citizen and the state and other powerful unelected groups who have way too much influence. There have been so many parliamentary decisions made in recent years on all sorts of issues like defence, war, the constitution, civil liberties, 10p tax rate, tuition fees for students, aspects of the banking crisis which seem to go against the will of so many ordinary people in this country and yet their voices are never heard. Our elected MPs and much of the media seem to collude in this - lacking the courage and commitment to question the powerful or hold them to account. The democratic deficit breeds cynicism and apathy and I think that's a toxic legacy for our children and future generations of citizens. We should be offering hope for change and a fairer, more open society - that's why I'm adding my voice to 38 degrees

i believe something should be done regarding the criminal and tolaterian way we are forced even threatened into pay for the bbc, especially amidst there new expenses scandel, i for one will not be bullied, my tv licence is in the bin, and i will not be paying for a new one.

Well done 38 degrees and keep up the good work on more transparent lobbying. I signed another petition earlier in the year AND wrote to my MP (Conservative) who made it clear that he did not want any change to the current system.
Our system of lobbying is in principle more corrupt than anything we have seen relating to MP's expenses. It allows the large organisations with the money to sway Politician's votes and puts all the power over our lives in the hands of large Corporations and powerful groups with vested interests.
If nothing is done now I have to believe that this particular situation will worsen under a Conservative government.
So please keep it up!!

Great 10K, if we all tell one (Or more) friend then how many can we be ???
I hope soon you will campaign for free travel on all public transport for OAPs, disabled and under 16s (With an adult) I saw earlier that you cant us a UK bus pass in Scotland, you cant in Wales as I found out last month, if our country is not united then why are we called United Kingdom ??? Also the bus pass is valid on trains in Manchester but not on Cheshire trains, again why ? As far as I know its because Cheshire wont pay the subsidy to the trains but I dont see why not as they dont seem to be spending money on public services, so wheres it going ?? Theres a campaign, sort out local councils !!!!!
Anyway good luck for the future campaigns, WE NEED YOU !!!

10,000 followers! Wonderful. Keep the ball rolling and the pressure on.

The time is right for a drastic change across all aspects of our political system.

If we truly live in a democracy why is it possible for unelected people to make decisions that can have profound effects on the lives of ordinary people.

Abolish the House of Lords. What an expensive waste of space they are and let the people who where elected by the PEOPLE to run the country on behalf of the PEOPLE.

Make the politicians in parliament understand that it is ordinary people who pay them to do exactly that and not think they are a law unto themselves.

There are too many things, I think, that are wrong and too many injustices going on in this once great Country of ours that Im afraid will take time and effort to change but 38 degrees has I think started that change.

I, for one, am 100% behind all that 38 degrees stands for and is doing and I salute you.

well done! it s good to be able to get your opinion over.can we get something done about immigration,stricter controls etc .

I have never had a positive response from an MP.
ost do not reply, and if a reply is forthcomin, it is usually penned by a minion or written in gob bledegook. Never a straight answer.

ANY THOUGHTS OR COMMENTS ON THE TOTALLY UNEQUAL EXTRADITION TREATY BETWEEN USA AND UK AND THE WAY IT IS BEING MISAPPLIED TO SUIT THE AMERICANS BY OUR SERVILE LICKSPITTLE M.P'S. A COMPLETE LIST OF MEMBERS WHO KNUCKLED UNDER TO THE WHIP'S SHOULD BE PUBLISHED SO THEY CAN FACE THEIR CONSTITUENTS.

MIKE WILLIAMS

well done on the membership numbers...we need as many people as possible to bring pressure to bear on the lazy,greedy,self gratifiying people that mis-manage this country. I would make
our priorities; 1 reform the human rights act so that foreign nationals convicted of criminal offences can be deported.
2. reform the one sided extradition laws between UK and USA
3. hold a public referenum on withdrawal from EU, all laws
governing the people of the UK should be proposed here in this country.

I'm worried that too much hysteria about MPs expenses is diverting attention away from the very serious economic and environmental issues that are going to have a massive effect on us all. We need to start dealing with these issues in a serious and thoughtful way - look at what Obama's trying to do in the US.

38 degrees can help with this by campaigning to help reform government and parliament so that they are more efficient and responsive to the people. Key issues for me are:

Short term
- Reform the voting system so that every vote counts.
- Fixed term parliaments.
- Elected second chamber.

Medium term
- Carry out a 'root and branch' review of the current dysfunctional constitution.
- Start a campaign around a 'charter' of 4/5 key constitutional reforms needed to modernise our democracy.

I'd like to see these changes:
- Remove constitutional powers from monarch (keep for
tourism/pageantry if desired).
- Have head of state (President/Prime Minister) directly elected by
the people. No more than 2x4 year terms of office.
- Goverment separated from legislature, which holds the
government to account.
In other words - adapt the best features of the US constitution and get rid of the worst features of the worn-out British system.

Thank you 38degrees for setting up this site. Its the best i've seen in this space.

I think there is a huge opportunity to bring seemingly disparate groups (social justice orgs, environmental groups, community orgs, social entrepreneurs, human rights campaigners) together, through the power of social networking and create huge virality around political issues that people are genuinely passionate about.

There is an incredible anger and rage among voters about so many idiotic policies and injustices. 38 degrees offers hope that this anger can be channeled through collective mass public opinion.

More power to your elblow - truth leads to truth, justice creates justice. I fear however, that i'm preaching to the converted...

Dear 38 degrees,
I like the emphasis on:-
1. a current controversial issue,
2. where a real decision is likely to be made,
3. which will make a substantial difference in the world,
4. where demonstration of massive public support for a more equal and sustainable society and more equal and sustainable solutions can be demonstrated rapidly by electronic means,
5. so that the decision-taker(s) have to take account of this body of public/voters' opinion.

My understanding is that those in favour of a more equal and sustainable world are substantial in numbers, but generally invisible to decision takers, and indeed to one another. I think Paul Hawken has written about this and publicised this. 38 degrees can help to empower this massive group of people, by showing that they exist and can influence the world in a desirable direction of change.

well done the 38 team----very well done------its time the polititions---had the (boot) to their rears

Politicians are appointed public servants.However my MP [Gorbals Mick } has been elevated to a peerage.WHY? Will Jaqui SmiI become Baroness Porn?Having Alzheimers but no convictions for fraud or Arson.Does the that mean I have no chance of a Peerage.Lords Watson and Archer of the Scrubs are to be seen sitting in the back rows waiting for the siso lolly.
A.Lindsay

I really can't beleive it's only been seven weeks. You've done a fantastic job. Only one bit of -constructive- criticism, website could do to be a bit more navigable, it's been hard to find stuff that isn't the current 'top story'. More reachable info on past successes/campaigns will make 38 Degrees even more credible to new users.

The fact you hve done so well so fast shows that when people say people are disengaged with politcs, it is pure BS, it's just that people are completely disillusioned with anything the cartel of fraudsters and disconnected incompetents have to offer.

I worked in the student movement for 10 years and as such know many of the 'Leaders of Tommorrow' personally. NUS is little but a training ground for politicians of all parties (mostly Labour). I litterally know hundreds of people who are now councillors and PPCs and I can tell you that the vast majority of the Next Generation are worse than the ones we've got now. The first thing they learn is to show undying loyalty to parties and complete disregard (or at best window dressing) toward the wishes of the people they are supposed to represent.

People who get involved because they genuinely want to make things better are either compromised or become disillusioned and go into something else. The ones who are willing to accept that they have to forget their principles and bend as a willow in the breeze to serve a politbureau and extinguish any traces of individulaity are the ones who see their future in politics.

I know you will continue to grow sincerely hope that you will go some way to providing this country what it needs the most, a new and credible party which will put the people first. We are at a similar point in history as we where when the Labour party was set up, but sadly it has become what it sought to destroy. If this doesn't happen, people might start taking the link I have posted seriously!

Parliamentary Reform has to be a priority. As soon as the Tories get in there is no hope or this concept for the next 10 years so we have to push for it NOW!
Also, can we have more Tube lines South of the River please, I don't understand the point of Crossrail...isn't that what the Central Line does?

Congratulations on the 10k, hopefully it will soon be 1,000,000.

Groups like this can help to put right the wrongs our politicians do, not only in the realm of expenses and forcing an open inquiry into the Iraqi war but, it could be used for so much more, such as helping us to get some of our rights as citizens back from the 1984 group.
Getting the new anti-terror laws out of the system would be a great start.
These laws are unnecessary, as the laws we had on statute covered everything anyway. These new laws have given our freedoms away. It is now possible to be arrested and gaoled without being allowed a legal defence, without even being notified of the charges against you. This is a huge backward step to the times of inquisition.
We must take our hard won liberties back.

well done on reaching 10,000 if we have 100 friends or contacts that we be a cool million ! need to look at councils to much nepotism and party networks executives on crazy wages

We need to gain real clout to force change, we have a corrupt system that masquerades as a democracy, in fact the corruption and corrupt practices in the UK is only different from third world countries like the Philippines in that our lot have perfected the art of deception over centuries so are very good at it.

We only have a pseudo democracy with no written constitution and all laws based on privilege rather than constitutional rights and that includes the Human Rights Act. We have no justice only revenue scams by the state (system of penalties and fines) and a legal system that is abusive to ordinary people that work for a living; only the very poor and the wealthy can get anywhere with legal redress, the rest of us can go to hell. In fact we are ruled by the creation of fear as a means of control. No election of our head of state, no election of Prime Minister (that incidentally is above state and international law) and a Parliamentary system that is effectively a one party affair. Our voting system ensures that only one of two political parities have real influence or power and as they both clamber for the same place in the political arena we are a one party state. The system of Party Whip is most un-democratic and must be abolished.

In reality it is the ex-public school brigade that take the top jobs in the Civil Service and run the politicians that are too stupid to realise it, square that with the Masons and we the citizens are powerless. Lord Digby Jones told MP's that 'half of civil servants deserve the sack', he was of course referring to the elite cretins that rule this country made up from the so called 'Public Schools'.

This organisation needs to quickly gain strength before it is crushed like so many others that have shown promise; they and us will not be crushed by the politicians but by those that wield the real power in this country of ours and no doubt the puppet masters from abroad that we all surely know we are subservient to.

Kevin Elks.

My thoughts, when written down about politicians, the NHS committees or Quangos, may not make pleasant reading but whenever I read or hear about what is happening I am angered by the lack of forethought that has been exhibited by our supposedly educated elected or selected people. Brains but no commonsense is a term I wopuld use.

Well done 38 deg! Let's hope the numbers grow very quickly. There is so much being done by government in today's world without due regard to what the electorate require. The word 'democracy' seems to have disappeared from our political life. The Lisbon Treaty is a typical example. No referendum for the people who will have to live by its laws is a gross injustice. I haven't seen yet on our media the full implications of it in our British way of life. We should at least have some knowledge of what will be done in our name.

Another point of issue is the so-called 'Political Correctness' law. Whose 'political correctness' does it refer to specifically? 'Political' to me means 'politics' and we all know there are many different political parties so a clear definition should be given to us all before we find ourselves being charged with such an offence unknowingly.

Simply, keep up the good work! I'll respond later with some more detailed points.

38 degrees ticks all the boxes. It's what we are all thinking. Not sure about Nick Clegg though! Not sure about many politicians now. We must carry on with this. Thanks for your initiative.

The Internet provides one of the few hopes left for making the collective voice of the populace heard, and gives us an opportunity to sway government decisions on an open and clear basis, unlike the powerful lobby interests whose interference we are fighting, which can only operate in secrecy. 38 Degrees is doing well in the UK, and for global matters we have Avaaz.

On balance, I think our most pressing problem is to get governments to make a hard committment to early and sweeping reductions in Carbon Dioxide emissions. If the climate gets out of control, democracy will become a thing of the past anyway.

Well done..keep up the excellent work but...please campaign for:

1) Reduction of a parliamentary term from 5 to 4 years (priority).
2) Banning of any MP becoming Prime Minister without a vote (preferably a General Election).
3) Banning of un-elected ministers being appointed and involved in Government policy (eg. Lord Mandelson, Lord Adonis, Glenys Kinnock, Alan Sugar all of whom are impossible to vote out of office).
4) ALL politicians, including local, being subject to strict salary structures with very limited expenses (it is ridiculous that Chief Executives of Local Councils should earn up to 3 times more than a Prime Minister for eg.).
5) No entitlement to pension to be paid to any MP unless a SECOND term of office has been completed.
6) The scrapping of the Northern Ireland Assembly, Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly OR introduce an English equivalent (Gordon Brown and his Scottish Cabinet colleagues can introduce legislation for eg that does NOT affect their own Scottish constituencies and might only affect constituencies in England).

Let us campaign for a return to REAL and accountable BRITISH democracy and for policies that affect the WHOLE of the UK!

I firmly believe that the modern democratic government in the UK consists mainly of persons seeking to line their own pockets and look after themselves and their families with very little concern for the public at large. We no longer have government for the people, if we ever had, we have government for the government and the other politicians. We, the public, get very little say in decisions made in parliament and that is totally undemocratic. I am in full agreement with what you are tring to achieve in making government and politicians responsible to the public instead of to themselves. I also am a member of the UKIP party because I believe we have been forced into the EC by the government again having total disregards for what we, the people, think about it. A combination of the UKIP and 38 degrees would make a brilliant political party.

I had never heard of 38 degrees but am signed up to Charter 88,They work for you,Amnesty International,Worldvision,etc & for the first time ever joined a political party-UKIP........perhaps you got my details from one of them? However I am glad you emailed me & I was more than happy to sign all your petitions because I am so angry I could burst! I am so fed up of:party politics,corruption,taxation(going to get worse),the betrayal of our soldiers,lining their own pockets(politicians,BBC & bankers!),short term rewards to bankers for long term failures(they still have their nice houses,childrens private education,fancy cars & good pensions whilst the ordinary person could lose their-job,house & pension).What is there not to complain about..........NB-PEOPLE ARE NOT APATHETIC ABOUT POLITICS,THEY ARE DISGUSTED & DISILLUSIONED & WONDER IF THERE IS A POINT TO VOTING? 33% TURN OUT IN EUROPE IS HARDLY A MANDATE FROM THE PEOPLE!
I am sorry for the capitals & apologise but I am livid.There are so many issues I could write 2000 words without blinking,but I will spare you that.In the Bible it states the ways of men or bound to fail & lead to death(greed & war),I hope you do well 38 degrees but I put all my faith in the soon return of Jesus Christ......only then will the world know peace.

I support Parliamentary reform to reflect the professional status that MPs clamoured for BEFORE they were paid a salary and stood purly for ulturistic reasons and because they wanted to make a difference - even to their own pocket. Now that MPs have tried to become professional by status and they are paid a salary I believe the should also owe a duty of care to the elecotrate [and others who don't] who pay them and they no longer hide behind Parliamentary Privalege to "get away with murder". Any other professional can be sued for negligence. Moreover those who make false or exagerarated claims for expenses should be prosecuted - the Inland revenue should also tax these expenses as benefits in kind. Regretably the Tories answer to claims for refrom is to shout for a General Election - things have to be changed now. Remember there was one who thought himself above the law and Parliament - chap by the name of Charles - no - not 'im

Well done 38 degrees. Generating a group of 10,000 in 7 weeks is an excellent achievement. The challenge now is maintaining the momentum, and that means picking the right issues to engage with. Part of that will be to do what you are already doing so well, which is to keep the participants informed, giving updates of support generated, outcomes of petitions, etc. All of this validates the campaigning effort and keeps apathy at bay! :)

I joined, in common, i suspect with many others, out of a sense of outrage and betrayal over the MP expenses scandal. For me this was the catalyst to finally get up and try and make my voice heard.
The reason I chose 38 degrees was because the model of activism through extensive use of modern social networking sites was a significant factor in the recent US election of Obama and the energy and inclusiveness of his campaign.

As for future campaign issues - I would like 38 degrees to remain focused on parliamentary and electoral reform. Most of the other big issues such as the environment, green energy generation etc already have established and vociferous organisations supporting them - Reform may seem less "sexy" but is equally important.

I think we need to keep the pressure up on issues already raised - Right of Recall, Citizens Convention etc, because it is my belief that many MPs will just be hoping that if they keep their heads down all the fuss and outrage will go away - and they will be right, unless someone keeps these issues in the public eye.

I would like to see 38 degrees and other organisations such as Unlock Democracy, to highlight the idea of a New Reformation, and drive the debate for such reforms in the national media. This New Reformation would include greater transparency in government, decreasing the influence of QUANGOs, more public involvement in the democratic process including limiting MPs to people elected from within their own constituency, and changing the current voting system to one that offers proper representation, rather than the existing first past the post system which disenfranchises many and creates apathy.

I joined because I'm increasingly worried about politicians' absence of accountability and encroachments on privacy (e.g. ID cards).

The government have had their own way, for way too long. We are the people who voted them in to help us...not to help themselves...it's time they were held accountable for all the underhand things they have been doing....NO EXCUSES!!! They take no notice of what the people want and need, and forget that it's the people that put their trust and confidence in them to do this.
This is why I joined 38degrees...to give the working people a voice

Well done on getting to 10,000 please make the next campaign be about getting the lisbon treaty scrapped an Britain out of the EU. All the best.

Please bring an end to corporate bullying in local planning. Too much influence is available through central government American-style lobbying and the power exercised by local officers in councils smacks of delegated instructions from Westminster party vested interests. This is true whether major housebuilders proposals for massive schemes are steamrollered through or whether the sham of "open and transparent consultation" for supermarkets is conducted in public; the result is always the same - rubber stamp. This crushes the spirit and aspirations of small communities and young people trying to start local services. Community decisions need to lead the country and show an example to the rest of the world that we did not ask to go to war, we did not know our politicians were fleecing us, we did not authorise our government to turn a blind eye to banks running amock, and actually, the last voter turnout did not endorse Blair or Brown.... We are sick & tired of the Metropolitan Police findings of "insufficient evidence to secure a likely prospect of conviction" letting crooked public figures off with large scale fraud because crooked lawyers have turned the justice system into a farce. Go for it. Impeach Blair if you can for his complicit role in the destruction of democracy.

I was on holiday in Scotland for a week recently and was amazed to find that my bus pass was for England only. It didn't particularly bother me but I was in the borders and the Scots could not use their passes to shop in Carlisle. This seems idiotic to me as we live in the UNITED Kingdom. I see no difference in OAP's wherever they live.

Hello David & All 38 Degrees, Congratulations on the 10 target, more power to your elbow. I have read & digested quite a few postings & am amazed at same minded people(s) I am a severely disabled OAP, who never leaves my MP alone with my numerous letters to him, normally to do with disability issues, & local matters. As a few other people have pointed out??? my MP has on every ocassion i have requested him to sign an EDM, pointed out that as a PPS, or, Junior Minister, he is not permitted to do so??? It took me 5 years to get him to hold A Surgery in a place accessable to me via wheelchair. On eventually getting an appointment to see him, he allotted me 15 minutes ex 5 years??? Due to age, & my limited knowledge of new technology (laptops) When i was in Army, - Computers where the size of my kitchen, ha-ha, i am not able as yet to follow links, etc, so can only basically agree with all of your aims. I will do my best to become more proficient??? & hopefully aid your causes more in the future. For the time being, good luck & PLEASE Continue THE GOOD FIGHT, Regards to all 38's, Mick.

I am proud to be born in england but the government here is a nighttmare that is still ruling us with rules that feed their own greedy need for power, money and destruction. I am so glad to be a member of 38 degrees for the papers just talk of media and not how we are being misled by idiots. I feel guilty about not speaking out about the attack on iraq and Tony Blair should publicly apologise for his dis honesty. Robin Cook, god bless him knew how this war was so so unfair how can Mr blair live with himself, and well i am just overwhelmed when i read about how england and america have been lied to about iraq..............we need a people revolution now! All nations.

Oh what music that is to my ears to no that at long last some one believes as i do why should they rob us and get away with it .On writing to my mp Douglas Hogg got a negative reply just as i thought i would .ther eager enough to put adds on the tv were watching you but who is watching those greedy mp that are robbing us proudly now i can say 38 Degrees.I will back you all the way .

Besty regards

malcolm fenn

well done,let us try to get the next 10,000. We need to give the Commons a good shake up,I watched the debate in the Commons on nuclear proliferation,very important we all think not so our M.Ps there were three Labour and no Tories.

Congratulations on the milestone reached. One voice won't be heard, but 10,000 ++++ cannot be ignored!

What I would like to see is all human rights legislation scrapped and replaced with human responsibilites legislation.

Congratulations on attaining a 10K membership. I would like to make MPs, Civil Servants, and anyone working in a service industry to be accountable for their decisions and actions. This is not to instigate a witch hunt when mistakes are made - but to give people a sense of responsibility for their jobs. Job satisfaction is all too lacking these days, and management in Britian is pretty bad. Anyone who has had to deal with anything to do with the phone service/internet providers/BT/banks/and government departments including HMRC will know how infuriating it is trying to speak to anyone who has the authority to get things done or corrected. So much time is wasted writing letters by those who can be bothered or have the time and tenacity to do so. Its a broad subject but the buck has to stop somewhere.

Someones commemt on Council Tax on 2nd homes

...don't get me started. Half the villages in Cornwall, yes 50% are empty in winter, killing local services because they are 2nd home holiday homes to wealthy elite in the South East, which drives up local house prices, whilst Cornwall has the lowest wages & poorest ecconomy in the UK.

Thatcher want Cornwall as some sort of elite holiday vacation spot!

...and Like Andrew George Mp cares with his expenses claims and would not help a homeless 15yr old living rough on the streets of Helston (Mind you police, social services, youth services & education dept. all KNEW and would not lift a finger either!)
This is the Cornish youths video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itpwloMfpco

...and this one makes the point too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKRJjFOeKMA

Back too 2nd home council tax.

It should be 100% (if not more) for the homes taken out of the local housing market for nurses, teachers, and those who get a damn sight less pay than them.

Corruption, it starts at the top!

http://www.pinkpasty.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/thepinkpasty

Dear "The Team",
As most MP`s have now been found to have added `thieves of the public purse` to their normally self aggrandizing mores, along with lies and deceit as a prerequisit of course....the more you guys can show them up for what they are, the better.
What`s happened to these `Regional Assemblies`that the people got but were never asked if they wanted them, the `bottom~feeders`inventing jobs for the boys, at our expense of course. No doubt obeying a rubberstamped diktat from the Franco~German led cesspit if corruption..?(by all means, please call the whole political experiment what you will). Why aren`t all these politicians who are so in favour of our country being run by a foreign superstate, being rowed through Traitors Gate?
Now you may think I`m being a tad on the cynical side....
Do keep up the good work, this house backs you to the hilt!
AtB,
John Williamson.

At last a forum to help us the people who are fed up with the way our political system works have a voice. Long over due.
I agree with so many of the issues raised such as:
true democracy,how?
Limit MPs and civil servants pay, perks and pensions to be more in line with real working people
Support our forces more - they get scant reward while our 'masters' get luxury.
Why should any MP within commuting distance get assistance for a 'second' home, let them commute daily like so many of us.
I could go on but why don't you add to your site some way of people submitting their ideas for campaigns?
Thanks for what you are doing

Thanks to David and the team who have achieved a great following in 7 weeks.

I personally would like to pay tribute to to the courageous men and women fighting for justice and truth.

In particular the work of Bridget and Ant at www.julyseventh.co.uk and the hard work of scientist and American friend Steven E Jones for his paper at http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?T...

To them and others like them I take my hat off.

I think 38 Degrees is a brilliant idea. What made me originally sign up was the MPs' expenses scandal. Another positive thing was the Iraq war enquiry.
I wrote to the Metropolitan Police about the MPs' expenses and got a result. They informed me about the investigation and possible prosecution of a few MPs and peers.
That was a superb result.
It would be great if Tony Blair was brought to book about the Iraq war because it is a terrible waste of life (on both sides of the conflict).
Well done to the originator of 38 Degrees and you can always count on my support.
Thank you.

Well done for raising our hopes that democracy may still have a chance here in the UK despite our modernising goverment. I would like to see a referendum re; the Lisbon Treaty as was promised by this undemocratic governemnt.

I'm a bit concerned that most people commenting are concentrating on the issue of the expenses scandal. In some ways this is a distraction. The defective political system manages to trivialise issues like how to deal with the Taliban - knee-jerk gungho response - and the absolutely vital issue of climate change - promoting alternative energy (certainly necessary) while ignoring the consequences of business-as-usual "economic growth"

Hi It seems to me that no change can be brought about within any of the political parties, the reason being all new recruits must first accept party policy to become an active member, regardless of their wishes to bring about change they must toe the party line. I make a reference of SHEEP and WOLVES, wolves lead and sheep must follow, sheep may also lead but they must first become wolves.
This is true for all "CLOSED SHOPS" and professions, sadly this is the system and status quo, wolves will never listen to sheep for they do not recognise them. How you can change this is beond my understanding, but I welcome your proposals. Just had a reply from my member of parliament (wolf) who is not at all happy with our interference in wolves affairs (UNDERSTANDABLY) vkj321

I am very pleased to be among the 10000 and would like to comment on the number of MP's Currently 648 and the number of Lords 700 odd who are responsible for 25% of all legislation in the UK.
The other 75% of legislation is controlled by another 700 odd politicians in Brussels. Why do we need as many MP's? can we not push for a reduction of 75% of MP's at Westminster and abolish th e House of Lords altogether and save the country a fortune in expenses.

I would like to pay tribute to the hard work of people 'beavering' away behind the scenes for truth and justice in the face of overwhelming odds.

In particular Bridget and Ant from www.julyseventh.co.uk and Steven E Jones who produced the famous report at http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?T...

To them I raise my hat, to them I say thank-you.

Many of the 'older generation' (some younger than me!) do not have computers or the internet. Can some leaflets be produced to give information to such people? I would be happy to pay for what I use, and I am sure that other supporters in pubs and clubs would do likewise. People would protest etc. if they knew how and it was not difficult / expensive for them.

Best regards,

R E Baldwin

I would actually like to see some MPs prosecuted by the Fraud Squad over their expenses. It is not enough for them to pay it back. Are thiefs allowed to pay back what they have stolen and avoid prison - I don't think so. Why wasn't the Fraud Squad called in and the Inland Revenue. No wonder there is not enough money for social care for the elderly and to properly equip our boys fighting overseas, when these "parasites" are claiming it all in expenses. I am so MAD I could scream. I don't feel like voting for any of them - they are totally lacking in any kind of moral fibre and they are leading our country or standng in opposition! UNREAL.

Well done. Now lets fight for a referendum on the libson treaty.

I have been involved in Scottish politics for quite a long time and came to the conclusion that the best way to make positive changes is to form pressure groups. This is the reason I joined 38degrees. It seems to be working - keep going,please. I'd like to see you campaign for a fairer systyem than the present council tax. It seems absurd that second home owners only pay 50% council tax - priveleged enough to own two homes they should be priveleged enough to pay at least double!!

Really pleased to part of something new that has the potential to make a difference.

I would love to see more action on MP's second homes as I still can't believe that you can claim on a second home thats only a few miles away from your original address, when some people commute for hours.
Why let them have a second address anyway, a purpose built condo and x- amount of free rail trips a year would be more than sufficient, this would also do away with claims for everything from people who earn more than most and come from over priviliged backgrounds anyway.

Well Done 38D. I joined because I feel no one is listening to the working class people of this country. Every MP and government is ripping us off, through taxes, vat, etc. We all need to put pressure on them continuously. They need to be accountable to the people.

From little acorns...... Well done , it is time that instead of the Son of the Manse worrying about the democracy he wants the world to enjoy, he needs to put his own house in order and rid his cabinet of all the unelected snouts he is sharing his trough with. such as the gravy train experts aka Mendlesome and the Welsh Boyo and Spouse. then rid us of the European 40 million a day club, that grows into a bigger leech as time passes.

Thanks for your work..

This Looks very promising, I am becoming convinced that your efforts will give us a voice. The Politicians though, still do not "Get It "refusing to give details to the fees officie "In case it is leaked" If I am paying along with other Taxpayers their mortgage intrest and other expenses I want to know the are not claiming more than they should. We have seen that at least half of them if not more are not to be trusted!!

Thank you for your work

Iain

Openess in politics. EU expenses. EU referendum. Politicians to do what constituents want, not what they do.
Same for local government.
Stop local, state employee and civil service final salary pensions. We cannot afford them.
Abolish regional assemblies etc etc.
Get rid of kwangoes.
Keep council tax down.

These are the things which concern me. There are others but basically I want accountable, honest politicians and at present I have neither.

prob not as radical a change as id like to see,but gathering momentum.time to see lobbyists curtailed,bankers having assests seized and the "political elites"put back in their box

I this this site is brillant.. I like to make one commet Why single mums or dads who get tax credits... they get there payments messed up. it happened my my ex girlfriend for 18 months she didnt get the right tax credit payment for almost 2 years.. just recently they have back paid her back last week.. i think its disgusting that a goverment department mess up peoples lives coz they cant pay out properly.... i have a feeling as we approach to over 3 million jobless people.. that the goverment is bankrupt.....

Above all, your work is 100% necessary.

I read an interesting blog by Jon Snow the other day: debate is out there; challenging thoughts and ideas are everywhere; energy is abundant - so 'when will this infect the conduct of public life in the UK?' 38 degrees has the chance to become the ideal vehicle for all the interesting debates taking place and all those with a desire to activate change.

Your emails just need to be less wordy.

We've let the 'apathy' party have their own way for to long so its about time we took back control of our futures and way of life. They are not our political masters but our servants and they need to be reminded of this. Government spending on superfluous beaurocracy is completely out of control which they expect us to support ad infinitum!
Individually we can do nothing, together we can acieve the immposible, which is why I joined.

I would also like to see a campaign to force a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. Why haven't we been given one? Because Gordon Brown knows that the British people would vote against it. It is an absolute disgrace that knowing that, he signed it anyway.

Please do not stop at the cost of our politicians.
Local councils, and the BBC must be brought to account for our money.

I would like to say well done to you. I would like to see an end to immigration. It is putting a strain on schools, jobs the NHS, housing .This country is not this country I loved any more,and it's all the fault of these morons in Westminster who seem to want to destroy our once great country they seem to live on an other planet than the rest of us

Congrats on achieving your first 10K and well done team so far.

Like so many members I felt cheated and angry when the scale of the MP's expenses scandal emerged and the lack of guilt and shame shown by so many. It is though they can do as they please without any accountability to the public they are supposed to represent.

My local MP appears to me to be a career politician and any argument I put forward contrary to the Party line is treated with disdain. He is unable or unwilling to look at opinions that might conflict with the propaganda circulated from his HQ it would seem. How many more are like this? With only one MP allowed per constituency who else can one approach that is able to fight an argument for you? Thank goodness for 38 degrees! Keep up the good work.

I have read the above comments with interest and I have to tell you that I agree with everything that has been said. I look forward to supporting the aims of the grouping. There must be many other issues that we could collectively suggest and unite together to help change the way things are. I watch political programmes regularly and I have to say our MPs still don't appear understand the weight of opinion against them. I await the outcome of the Norwich election.

a. I feel quite strongly that the parliamentary time table should be revised and the summer break should be shortened considerably.

b. The bad behaviour of MPs at Question time is totally unacceptable.

c. Question time should be held twice a week.

d. The PM should be held to account and compelled to answer questions put to him fully and accurately. The spectacle of obfuscation is not what is needed. The phoney attacks on the others by all sides does not deserve the so called 'mother of Parliaments' title which may well have been earned in times past, but is merely to do with history.

Dennis

d.

Keep pressing for electoral reform and stop them going for AV as a sop.

One message loud and clear from the Euroepean Elections (and indeed from the sad aftermath of every major campaign) - ELECTORAL REFORM! The UK is the dinosaur antithesis of democratic representation, the embodiment of the democratic deficit - yet we dare to lecture to other countries, we dare to suggest that we are the 'mother of democracy'. Let's go beyond demands for proportional representation, let's not be satisfied with those PR versions that some parties may advocate for their own strategic reasons - let's specify which version we wish to have in the UK - the most democratic, the most representative - AMS. (Discuss!). And let's jettison the 'Italian' argument against - namely it will lead to weak governance, weak 'leadership', coalitions, the rise of small parties with narrow agendas. Bring it on! Democracy can cope.

Congratulations !!! the few are now 10,000 and growing. I joined because something had to be done,and I didn't know where to start.

I do not believe that an MP should be allowed to take jobs outside parliament.

How could the job of running our country leave them time to work at anything else.

No MP should be paid more than double than the average pensioner recieves, anything above this they should finance themselves.

For most of my life I have not been a particularly "political" person but during the last few years my country, which I love,has become a place to be ashamed of and you seem to be doing many things to change this. You have my support in all issues and I will watch progress with interest.

I am pleased to be one of the first 10,000 members
,but at age 70 I fear it has come too late for me to be of much use.
I did however e-mail my MP,Mr Ashok Kumar with a request to sign the early day motion on the citizens charter.As expected in the middle of all the waffle was a polite refusal.This is only to be expected from this MP who never votes against the Government. previous excuse used ti be "i,m only a mere back bencher",now he must have been promoted as he says "as a Parliamentary Private Secratary I am seen as part of the Government,and by convention generally barred from signing early day motions that may conflict with Government policy". unquote.


Keep up the good work,you will have my support in any way that I can help.

Ian Thompson

congratulations I am very pleased to hear this, i hope more people join this group and support the campaigns.

I hope the interest continues, which it will if you keep up the enthusiasm and your ability to select matters that are ignored by politicians but are of concern to those of us who are tired of the way we are governed. I have no idea how many, if any, have responded to your petitions, etc. but I always pass on any you e-mail me with on my-telegraph blog.

Thank you, 38D, I have my faith in how politics should be for the people, renewed. You have prompted myself to become more active in issues that concern me, not just stewing in my own juices, as many people in this country do. May you grow and increase influence for all, who care but feel disenfranchised. Well done!

Up until the mid 90's I let politicians get on with running this country, mistakes were made but I tolerated it,
Since 1997 I found that this country has been led on a downhill path, first getting steeper by the month and now by the day. We are heading towards the Abyss with our eyes closed.
We are in all but name a third world dictatorship, and have possibly reached the tipping point, never to recover?
I just hope that 38 degrees can change even a few things to turn this once great country around. With 10,000 members there is obviousely a great deal of like minded people who's feelings are similar to mine?
Hopefully we can bring true democracy back to this country?

There are many issues which need tackling, including the burgeoning QUANGOs, as already mentioned above. One issue I would urge you to take up ASAP is the iniquity of the state pension. The 'State' decrees a single pensioner needs £130 pw to live on, yet the basic pension is only £95.25 per week! Not much after a lifetime of working; of course, this being the UK, there is the humiliating process of applying for a means-tested 'Benefit' to receive the magical £130 (not a huge sum by any means).

This situation is all the more sickening in light of the recent scandalous revelations over MP's expenses. To think, for years, those who decide the meagre pension for us mere mortals, were pocketing untaxed £thousands on top of awarding themselves generously pensioned incomes. (Whilst somebody with an 'income' of less than £7K HAS to pay tax - which doubled when the 10% tax rate was abolished).

So, please keep up the good work.

Well done so far. I am not a political animal, but what has been happening recently- expenses row, inquiries behind closed doors I will fully support your suggestions, at moment I can only assist in this by contacting friends and family, unfortunately you have required a password to do this, and whatever I never give my password- can you rectify this?

Congratulations on your success. I like 38 degrees because, instead of moaning to my husband who doesn't listen half the time to my rants, I can feel involved along with other mad voters about the injustices of lousy M.P's etc.
Terry Waite has echoed one of my long-lasting rants, that, if we were to have a place on the ballot form which said "none of the above" or "no confidence in any M.P.'s" and these were nto be counted along with all other parties' M.P's we may be spurred on to bother going to the booths to vote. Let us not forget that we pay their extortionate wages, expenses etc, so we are the bosses not them.
Make available overnight accommodation in London for the M.P.s to stay. Make them sign in and out of Parliament each time they attend. Give whoever does their pay the responsibility for working out their monthly pay from the time attended by each of them.
I received a letter from David Davies, Monmouthshire conservative M.P. that he would go along with the early day motion, but he thinks that only a few of the public would be allowed in small groups to any forum and he thinks we need a general election now to sort out the bad M.P.s. I wrote that we would only be voting in the same corrupt ones.
To finalise I would like to see 38 degrees do a petition re. Terry Waite's excellent idea so that us taxpayers could vote.
Many thanks
Barbara Barrie

The salaries and pensions of public sector workers right across the board should be looked at and set at a rate that can be afforded by the country!?

Just a thought, but as 38 Degrees grows...please, please don't sell us out...like Stonewall has GLBT persons by STONEWALL meekly accepting the flawed 'Equality Bill', which simply does NOT treat people equally.

Those at the top are simply NOT accountable & do not take responsibility (considering their excessive pay packets) eg: Chief Constables, Bank Exec's & MP's, etc

http://www.pinkpasty.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/thepinkpasty
Fighting the protected HOMOPHOBIC attitudes & practices of British Police

What I would like to happen next:
MP's and civil servants must have all inflation proofing removed from their pension entitlements.
Why?
Because they have inflation proof pensions we cannot trust them to exercise due diligence in the formation of financial policy and the control of the money supply.
Inflation proof pensions isolate civil servants and MPs from the consequences of their recommendations and their decisions.
Therefore citizens with contributory pensions that are not fully inflation proofed cannot expect to maintain the value of their savings.

Well done, indeed. Delighted to be one of the 10k. I joined through Unlock Democracy. This is technology harnessed to an excellent public end, and an efficient use of human resources. I know that a couple of those I contacted, as the mailings suggested, also joined.

What I'd like to see 38D campaigning for/supporting:

--a land-value tax (LVT). A spring meeting in the HoC, called by the Campaign for Economic Justice (CEJ), was packed, but not with MPs, who were notable by their absence except for Vince Cable, who was chairing the event. Any fair and progressive economy demands such a tax but getting wide public support will require unflagging campaigning. Many have become wealthy, some fabulously so, from the unearned income of property-ownership. A progressive politics cannot be built on such a self-serving foundation. Just as the losses of the banks have been socialised through government bailouts while the gains remain privatised, so too with the increase in house-prices which is nothing more than a private gain brought about through the increase in the value of the land on which the property. Geographical location, public services, a shortage of housing etc are what confer the unearned increase in value;
--a Citizen's, or Basic Income.

Perhaps 38D can support CEJ in its campaign, just as it has Unlock Democracy's campaigns for constitutional reforms?
Let's 'unite all who can be united' towards a fairer, freer, kinder society.

Congratulations on reaching this important milestone.There are many more issue 38 could pursue in the interest of democracy.
One of my pet "horrors" is the blatant refusal - despite an election pledge - for a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty,maybe a future campaign will address this issue, also the hundreds of "kwangos" costing millions of taxpayers money should be abolished.We must now encourage more people to join to make our voice heard loud and clear.

Well done, don"t slacken the pace, keep the momentum going, they will fight back as they have a lot to loose.
Politicians should be the servants of the people, as we should serve our country.

People are no longer willing to accept platitudes from our 'rulers', those people who set themselves above us but unfortunately have feet of clay.
Between the ages of 20 and 70 there could be as few as 10 occassions for us to give our opinion in a general elecgtion.
This is NOT democracy.

I have no doubt that there will be an open inquiry about Iraq but lets face it it is now in the past, Afghanistan is now, happening mow.
why are we there ?
will there ever be an inquiry into Afghanistan?
Can anything be learned about why we are there?
What are we doing?

For too long politicians have made it almost impossible for any citizen to change things for the better. Indeed, politicians appear to think that only they know what needs doing and in many ways we are seen by politicians as The Enemy, to be stopped from making any contribution at any cost. There's so much talent out here (more than in the House of Commons I dare say) that is going to waste. Wouldn't it be refreshing if, instead, we were treated as a valuable resource. It's liberating to be able to comment constructively and know that someone is actually listening for a change.

What could you improve? Just a feeling, but the outrage generated by the Expenses Scandal, while justified, has given rise to a number of groups/organisations which seem to have similar aims. How about joining together? There's strength in numbers.

It is my personal experience of the corruption, dishonesty & homophobic attitudes & practises of Cornwall police officers.

The refusal 'repeatedly' of those authorities (IPCC useless & ineffectual & Cornwall Police Authority) who are 'in theory' supposed to be responsible for keep the police accountable, but blind eye police abuse complaints with regularity.

It is because of the lack of honesty, lack of integrity, lack of impartiality & lack of transparency of conduct coupled with deep rooted homophobic attitudes & practise of numerous Cornwall police officers I have encountered that I started my blog http://www.pinkpasty.blogspot.com & my youtube video channel http://www.youtube.com/thepinkpasty

The Charles De Meneises execution, the G20 Ian Tomlinson killing, the Enfield water boarding torture, the Nottingham Tazer incident (see youtube) & the killing even of police dogs...coupled with my personal experience of a catalogue of police abuses, lies deception, misinformation, purjury, prejudice, discrimination, etc.etc. has made it clear to me that British police are out of control, unaccountable, dishonest & corrupt FROM THE TOP DOWN!

No amount of spin, smoke & mirrors by either politicians or unbelievable Chief Constable like Stephen Otter can cover up the corruption & diushonesty which is both our political leadership & institutional organisations.

It is citizen journalism which is exposing the institutional abuses as the judicial & legal system fails & is ineffectual repeatedly in protecting the ordinary people in the UK from institutional abuse & violations.

Thats why I joined 38 degrees

I am horrified at how unaccountable MPs are, and how easily they feel they can ignore public opionion between elections. My single vote seems to count for nothing. Therefore I hope an organisation such as 38 Degrees will provide united pressure on Government in general and give a wake-up call.

Congratulations!
As our democracy is constantly devalued by self serving politicians who believe they know what is best for us and refuse to listen when our opinion is conflict with their grand design. We have unelected individuals running our country it is vitally important that we use every benefit of modern technology to give us ordinary folk a voice that politicians of whatever persuasion cannot ignore.
I have encouraged every contact I have to join up and look forward to the day when our collective voice reaches the point where politicians ignore us at their peril.

I came to 38degrees via Unlock Democracy.
One further issue is PARTY FUNDING. The right arrangements could strengthen grass roots democracy. At its most extreme, membership fees could be made the only legitimate source of funds for a political party. Individual membership fees would need to be limited (or capped) at a suitable (low) level. Each party would then be forced to campaign for members and pay attention to them. This would remain true even if funding was augmented from public funds, provided the amount each party received was strictly in proportion to the number of its members. Naturally the membership records would need to be audited...

I am delighted at the speedy reaction to 38 degrees! The letters I have already scanned provide a comprehensive list of the reforms required in many areas of government. Perhaps the main one is a radical reform of Parliament by an independently formed body - with not a single person of it standing to gain personally or financially. There are far too many MP's too busy lining their own pockets to give a damn about the general public - we are sick of being cash cows for these corrupt people. Let's clean the stables folks, and make our voices not only be heard but ACTIONED.

My reason for joining 38 Degrees. I am tired and fed up with this Government. Each time I write to them with questions, I receive a late answer and they never answer my questions. Then I was introduced to 38 Degrees. Great! Lets get at them!!

Well done, 38o. This is a good beginning. Many people, the young particularly, don't vote because they believe - rightly - that MP's are too little accountable and too distant from the everyday problems of life here, so the elected government is far from being 'the will of the people'. Your organisation is a useful tool to make governments set the right agenda and carry it out, whatever denomination they practise under. Keep on, please!

It's a great success story so far, well done people.

Issues that also urgently need addressing are those of our personal liberties. By new laws and statutes these are steadily being eroded until we are almost a police state with intrusion into our lives on every level, and all "for our own good". These idiots took us into a war in Iraq, and then into Afghanistan, and in doing so inflamed Muslims the world over, thus increasing the terrorist risks to our homeland. To combat this, we have arrest and detention without trial, everyone snooping into our lives and controlling us, cameras everywhere, even chips on dustbins for heaven's sake. These laws need repealing.

To the Government, we should be shouting, "butt out! Give us back our heritage and the freedoms that you have stolen from us in your insane desire to control us."
"Where are these terrorists? Should the whole nation live under this monitoring interfering government because there "might" be a terrorist? Better to concentrate on crime and proper punishment, on closing the door to Europe and all those migrants flooding in, on proper health and education, on ridding us of PPI's and those iniquitous quangos."

At last a voice, like most people i know, we are fed up with being taken for (Mugs) walk over by Beauracy, and stolen from, by our representatives

Well done on reaching the 10,000 mark - a significant achievement!

However, I'm inclined to agree with Henry Oakley's comments above whereby we should harness the momentum into something more powerful - rather than single (although related) issues. I believe the last few weeks has shown that very little has really changed...the bankers are rewarding themselves large bonuses again, the same MPs are in power - and no-doubt the ex-speaker will gain a knighthood at some point and the world leaders appear unable to tackle climate change. 'A week in politics' is often referred too as 'a long time' - which suggests that the public soon forget as other 'disasters' are covered.

Firstly, I would suggest that 38 Degrees adopts strategies to exert intense pressure when the various issues are first uncovered and maintain it until change occurs. Secondly, by petitioning (although a strong tool) are we not allowing those we wish to reign in to decide if action and what action will be taken and when? Lastly, any organisation being critical of others needs to be totally transparant - or at least moreso than those it aims to challenge.

Before the next election we need to make sure that we are allowed to demonstrate without the numerous permissions, restrictions, prior notice, etc. that are now in place. We also should be allowed to heckle without getting dragged out of political meetings by bouncers. We,The People must reclaim politics. We should not let the Governments (local and National) have it all their own way -- or we'll be in a police state before we know it.

I support your efforts simply as a means of bringing this bunch of thieving shysters under some kind of control.

I am sick of hearing that this one or that one "has not broken the rules" when the "rules" are nothing more than a thieves charter.

Please continue.

Regards


Peter

I joined 38degrees because I was frustrated with having no say in what our ruling elite do and they are seriously out of control with huge egos. Well done to you so far, giving a lead and opportunity for other like minded people who want a government to know we will not be put off demanding change in our parliamentary system This will not only benefit the country but in the longer term MP's themselves when they do not have to squirm and lie to themselves and us about "doing nothing wrong". My only concern reading some of the comments that 38 degrees may become party political and that would be very sad.

I joined 38 Degrees because I was fed up with our In term respective Governments, not giving a damn about Joe public's concerns over certain Issues, some of which seem to be getting addressed for the better!
Now when are we going to see the pointless & unwinable futile war In Afghanistan come to an end?
Our poorly equipped troops, using American Military hardware, designated bye the U.S as high risk, just so this Government save money on funding, at what cost of lives daily?
British forces have been there before, also the Russians (9 Yrs ) & others, all have failed what Agenda?
The off shoot trade of drugs from the Poppy will never be stamped out as there are gigantic amounts of profit to be made from their sale!
So when will our troops stop coming home In Body bags from this senseless conflict, no doubt Instigated by the Paranoid Americans & subscribed to by our pathetic puppet Government pandering once more to U.S Military plans, with out the backing of our sane public!

I joined because I want to see Democracy mean just that - representation of the People by the People - and not just carry on being a hackneyed phrase spouted out by political 'hacks' who, after being chosen by their Party, are only interested in their Party & themselves. Politicians who once elected follow the 'Party Line' if there is the slightest risk that by trying to represent their constituents the might of the Party Whips will fall on them. This makes them afraid to fight for 'Rule by Parliament' (the supposedly people's representatives) and accept 'Rule by PM & Cabinet ' (unelected & more often now not even from the Commons). I want to see all facts, annually - on attendance; voting & expenses - to enable performance to be judged and if found lacking for dismissal (recall) to take place, as would happen in any other job.

I am pleased to be one of the many 'so far', hoping that we can become an even more powerful voice. I, like many, have been completely sickened by the more or less universal attitude of our 'elected representatives', in that they think [or have thought] that they alone can speak. And that they are somehow entitled to all obtainable perquisites of 'POWER', as if this were a 'banana republic'! Personally, I think that the party system is much to blame, the machine having taken over the members, so I have a real aversion to joining ANY political party. So long as this remains a 'lobbying' organisation in the manner which it has been thus far, I am very happy to remain a part! Lastly, I think that much more thought needs to be given to the thrust regarding the expenses mess, which I think that MPs are even now busy trying to emasculate and/or bury!

collectively we can remove MP's that do not and will not support their constituants, alone I am having difficulty in gaining an answer to my questions, and investigations to my claims
lets stick together.

tony

I joined because I feel that at last you present a possibility of democracy actually working.I was so annoyed over the expenses scandal and the fact that MPs who stay on to the next election before being voted out will still get loads of our taxes to take into retirement. The whole issue should have been investigated by the fraud squad straight away and if appropriate, miscreants heavily fined or sent to prison as would happen to "ordinary mortals". How the Hell they should get away with it by paying back their "mistaken" claims I do not know. How on earth can anyone "forget" they have paid of a mortgage???

Some 20 odd years ago I collared a campaigning M.P. on the doorstep and asked why the Government continually ignored public opinion and refuse to even contemplate the return of a death penalty (not hanging) for killing of police officers and for financial gain or for rape. Most people appeared to resent having such people being banged up at inordinate cost to the public purse and then let out early, often to commit more serious crimes.This guy's reply made my hackles stand up. He said "The public does not know what is good for them" I just walked away in disgust.
I will not mention his name but he went on to become a most senior member of a Conservative Cabinet.

Well done. We need so many things to change in this country and with 38 we should be able to do it.
My concerns are growing police powers and unchecked brutality and not one put on trial. In nine years 311 people have died while being interviewed at police stations. Six times more than by terrorism.
Another concern is the puerility of our House of Commons with drunken MPs in the House and booing and shouting like schoolboys

Well Great news and a pat on the back for staying firm!! not easy!My comment Dry and boring! but here we go! Accountability constrains the extent to which elected representatives and other office-holders can willfully deviate from their theoretical responsibilities,thus reducing corruption. The relationship of the concept of accountability to related concepts like the rule of law or democracy, however.still awaits further elucidation.

Well here hoping thats will be set in place! keep up the good work!

I hope that the 10K who have already signed up can convince their friends and family to do the same. The British government will then have to listen to the great britsh public and be held accountable for their actions. Keep up the good work 38 degrees.

Indifference, in the face of truth emerges within an increasingly privatized world, and, engaged politics erodes as public spheres are commercialised and privatised. But, with understanding of the public sphere and electronic communication systems, 38 degrees, has intervened in, and refigured the dialectics of power.
38 degrees and the 10,000 x's many more members, mobilised, reclaim global democracy as a reality.
"In times of universal deceit the truth becomes a revolutionary act. George Orwell. 1903-1950.

lets hope that collectivley we can acheive justice for the public, alone I am finding it difficult, even when I have challenge them (all parties) to weed out the fraudulent or the ones supporting such criminal acts

tony

The recent decline in the respect for Parliament which was well under way before the expenses revelations, left me feeling betrayed and helpless when faced with what appeared to be a corrupt political body, devoid of any claim to integrity. 38 degrees appeared at the right time and at least gave us a vehicle to express our views. My only hope is that the momentum does not stop and that our politics are reformed to a standard that we are entitled to expect. If this fails, I am extremely apprehensive as to what the consequences will be.

Our political system is experiencing a terminal crisis; it is time for the UK to change or die, and that change means justice and democracy for ENGLAND. We have a warped and grotesquely unbalanced political system which disadvantages England politically and economically. If the UK is incapable of reforming itself then England should become an independent country and leave the EU.
The shocking truth has now been exposed: We have over 29,000 politicians in the UK costing us £500 million per year! This fact needs to be repeated over and over again. These people want to enslave us, not serve us.
What does the English Democrats Party want (the only party standing up for England):
The abolition of the wrotten Westminster Parliament (Commons and Lords); to be replaced by a much smaller, single chamber, representative English Parliament;
The axing of all quangos;
A reduction in the number and size of councils;
An end to quango regional assemblies;
The scrapping of the iniquitous Barnett Formula (the Celts should pay for themselves);
Withdrawal from the undemocratic and costly EU.

We want our freedom and our money back!

Why not start a campaign demanding more equipment for our troops in theatre of war?

Congrats on the 10K. Political change comes from a mixture of root and branch change, as well as from the top. Unfortuantely, for all the root and branch change, until there is change at the top, there won't be real change. It's all about political will at the top. Not sure they have fully got the will to do it?

http://www.plenty2say.com

I feel we should also give our support to the 13 Doctors who have asked for an enquiry into the mysterious death of Dr David Kelly. Please keep up the good work I'm right behind you. sincerely Janet M Edwards

I want to tell you that I am furious to hear that 15% of the public are more supportive of the war in Afghanistan than they were three years ago! This supposed poll result (BBC and The Guardian) is obviously garbage. I don't know ANYONE who is in favour of this war - at all!
I heard someone on Radio 4 saying that we had become embroiled in a Pashtoun tribal conflict - having mistakenly believed it to be a threat to our security, thinking we were fighting Al Quaeda and terrorism.
This mis-information we are being fed is SO '1984' - and there seems to be so much of it! This Government clearly has no respect whatever for our intelligence!
Suzi Jenner

I think we all need to give ourselves a 'pat on the back' 10,000 signatures in 7 weeks is amazing, I look forword to the next 10,000 joining. This government has got away with it for far too long. It is no good moaning without taking a strong stand and lobbying the people that count.

what i like about 38 degrees is it's ability to discriminate between issues which matter, and issues which matter even more, so that it's petitions tend to focus on truly crucial issues without worrying about more peripheral, less immediate topics.
Keep the focus on the flaws of the political system, the deception of the government, and maybe lets have some more on the wealth inequalities which are growing, not shrinking.
good luck.

Congratulations, please keep up the pressure on MP,s re the thieves, most should be prosecuted.The man in the street would be if he made a dodgy claim. I also think that local government needs a close look at this is another huge burden on us all, lots of staff, with job titles that are a mystery, and of course a pension paid for by all of us. There are many out there, who cannot afford to pay for one for themselves. The time has come for us to stand up and say pay for your own pension.
Paying for care as a pensioner is ridiculous. How are people on just a state pension or a low income going to do this? Most could not afford an insurance either as has been suggested.
Keep up the good work, the more we stand together the further we will get.

Great to get this scale so quickly. Can we become even more effective?

Could we not start polling around political change and get the media interested?

I am all for stiking up for the underdog. I also think people in places of privalige . Should be held accountable.

We work hard to pay our TAX's .

Well done the 38 Degrees team and congratulations on aquiring 10,000 supporters, but it is only a start. I joined because I was thoroughly fed up with watching the fabric of this country rapidly being eroded by a government that took no notice of the majority of the population and seemed to have no idea how much damage it was doing. So many serious issues needed addressing, Health, Crime, Europe etc., but were all brushed aside, while this apology for a government carried on with an immigration "policy" that simply made no sense and has now put unnecessary pressure on the basic infastructure of our society.
In answer to Susan Marr, who presumably hasn't read the description of your title, I thought it was an excellent choice and hopefully, between us, we can force an "avalanche" of change for the better.

The last speaker going to the upper house after being sacked from the lower,the new speaker being elected for spite, corrupt politicians still in the top jobs despite being exposed. It is quite obvious that nothing is going to change until we ourselves change it.

Hi, below is a comment I left on open Democracy a few days ago... this is why I joined and this what I think we should do next. It seems to me absurd that people only become interested in what goes pn in parliament when I a newspaper highlights one specific issue. Laws are passed and decissions are made each day which would grate the morals of most people. We need an end to business interests of all kinds within parliament, whether this be lobbying, party funding, peerages, paid interships and placements from companies, the list goes on and on. Parliament needs to be completely independent and answerable only to we the people. We also need to see an end of career politicians, there is no place for personal gain in serving the people. Politicians should be ordinary people like you and I who care about both the small and important issues and who want to represent other people where we live in discussing this issues on a national level. There should be no place for the power, money and influence hungry in politics, or for nepetism and chronyism. How do we do this?

-----

How do we create effective change with so many organisations diluting the (limited) imputus of the public? Particularly when there are many different organisations striving toward the same goal of 'real' democracy, all working in a extra-political capacity if you like, outside of parliament, without a conjoined power base or strategy.

One answer would be to pool the resources and act in unison. Surely working together as one organisation, under one brand as it were, we have a much better chance of engaging as many people as possible.

If Real Change, 38 Degrees and the rest formed a political party, perhaps even in coillition with the Lib Dems and/or The Co-Op parties and other independents, we could formulate a unified national approach which might provide a challenge to the established two party hegemony.

I, for one, would love to stand in my region and I'm sure there are many others, who share our aims who would too, but who may be daunted by the idea of being a independent (as I am).

Established presence on the web and social networking sites put a future party in good stead for grass roots support and exposure.

It has become more than apparent over the past ten years that the centralised government isn't particulalry interested in what we the people, whom lend our sovereignty to be governed, think. They only take notice when the powerful media 'help' us formulate our collective opinions, in a very non-altruistic way of course. Surely holding power from within parliament would give us more of a chance of reformation than throwing stones from the outside and asking very nicely in our wholy British way "please do you possibly think you could perhaps have a look at X".

A truely progresive party with strong web presence would appeal both to the newly enfranchised youth and to the disenfranchised experienced voter.

I believe we have a chance if we try (well we have even smaller a chance if we don't) and once in a positon to do so we can work towards making PR a reality, outlawing lobbying and all the other desperately needed reforms.

People need a viable alternative before the general election, why not organise, unite and be that choice.

Hurrah for a "team" of campaigners who appear to understand the frustration, anger and despair of the ordinary, and till now, emasculated, folk living in Britain today, and who are prepared to stand up and be counted. The issues you have brought to the fore to date, have been pertinent - why else would you have 10,000 signatures so soon? I am proud to be one of those signatories and look forward to future challenges, knowing that 38Degrees is at the forefront of important democratic issues.

In most towns, Apathy Rules, OK? Yet when just one strong character actually stands up and says "No, this is wrong!", people sudenly wake up and think about it. As strong characters go, 38%, you're playing a blinder. Putting your case before every single person who is about to vote on it is exactly the way to go. There is a perception that what the public say goes unheeded and that was once true. Not now, you've got the megaphone and you're using it well. Power to the People!

I joined as a cure for impotence.

Impotence in the face of powerful politicians and people to do as they please without proper democratic account. The subversion and erosion of our vote for the convenience and advantage of individuals and parties in power.

I am happy to do my small part to encourage openness and honestly by the state and the minimalisation of vested interest.

I am really interested in the possibilities that are opened up when we come together well - with passion and good will and desire to change the world. And, I am excited about the possibilties that are opened up now that social media is becoming embedded and expected in many aspects of our lives - it is when the technology becomes invisible that the real social impacts start to make themselves known (see Clay Shirky's great book Here Comes Everybody for more on this)

I like the fact that 38 degrees is "process" political rather than party political.

And I love the cleverness in the name - the angle at which most human avalanches are triggered. Let's do it!

I'm tired of this present government ignoring the needs of the general public and allowing us to be run rough shod over by the so called P.C. brigade.
We need an open, honest and listening Government.
I'd like to see my M.P. representing the needs of his/her constituents rather than those of the 'The Party'

Concerning repossessions, Ian Shaw's post. What say you about the general public having no voice, when told that for 14 years a case has been ignored by the entire media, Big issue included please note, as well as entire political system - that there can be no repossessions because mortgages no longer constitutionally exist.

In 1995 I was a Zionist returner to Scotland, and suffered an emotionally terrible attempt buy the state to ruin it: on only my eighth day, both in Scotland and in a newly bought house, the police lied to me that it was in a rough area. It's Fife police. To my police complaint after realising the truth, I got the inspector's admission that the area was perfectly okay, but they got out of any liability by claiming the constitutional right to free speech. That the liar had to right to his opinion even if it was not accurate. NB I got a letter about this published in the Dunfermline Press 8 Dec 1995, so there is all on undisputed open record.

Now, rule of law is equally a constitutional principle, and it is violated if the law enforcers can take civil order away from you by false info about where it exists. Any person who that is done to, is treated unconstitutionally. But if the police can't be prevented from doing it because of free speech, then the possibility of unconstitutional treatment faces every person who ever moves into a new home. I was moving voluntarily, but this means every person who is made to move involuntarily, i.e. by eviction from their previous home, is placed in an unconstitutional situation.

This should make no difference to case of evictions caused by domestic violence or threatening behaviour, where the person has rejected civil order themself. But in all other situations, it means evictions are no longer constitutional. They no longer constitutionally exist. With them goes the validity of any agreement that carries a threat of eviction, including arrangements to pay regularly for occupancy of a home under threat of losing the home for non-payment. Rent, mortgages, and leases are such agreements. So they no longer constitutionally exist.

Unheard for 14 years already because it derives from how one ordinary person was treated by the authorities, this unknown advance forces there to be housing system where everyone owns their home by virtue of occupancy and having a home is not dependent on sustaining regular payments. Now there's an example to test the political system's corrupution and secrecy against, and actually score a real major reform in the process.

Congrats on the 10k
I agree with Hugo Marchen - we can harness the technology to shape a better world.
How many MPs are untainted?

The gap between the "have"s and the "have nots" is getting bigger, we're approaching Victorian times again. While they take the p*ss , often with our money, most of us are driven deeper into poverty.

Careful; quality not haste; good sensible values within 38Degrees thought and output; if 38 D is campainging to raise public standards as it is, it will be scrutenized, especially by hacks out to generate news (perhaps without foundation) by attacking those who are setting themselves up in judgement (as they would say). There is always a risk that enthusiasm, committment and eagerness will result in items being too too clever and open up reverse critisim. This can result in big damage and loss. Carl

Was passed your details through a fellow member of the Green Party.
An interesting and impressive venture. Shows the benefits of the world wide web!
Two questions for you:
1) Why 38 degrees? Might be absolutely dumb, but can't think what this means. All it means to me is temperatures of over l00 F, which I experienced regularly when living overseas!
2) What do you think of the Parliamentary Whip system? Is it corrupt? Is it out of date? Is it potentially undemocratic?

Future campaigns: SAY NO TO TRIDENT. Spend the money on worthwhile things for the people - NHS/Schools/Welfare etc.

never has it been so true that "United We Stand" I want to see real changes in our so called democracy and the use of new technology is of paramount importance in this.
We need a voting system that gives the opportunity for ordinary people to have some say as to what goes on in our name.

Carry on 38 degrees we are right behind you in many issues

I have been writing about the unjust child snatching by the SS that carries on with impunity..I am sick of the changes that have taken and are taking place in this country of ours where our democracy is being eroded by the day..I have been interested to read the sites of Brian Gerrish that some might equally find of interest with respect to Common Purpose a supposedly charitable organisation... Keep up the good work team before we loose complete control of our civil liberties and hard earned human rights..

I joined because I believe you were doing a good job on the MPs expenses scandal and the 'political establishment' had a vested interest - all parties - in hushing it up. You also have raised other interesting issues but I would not like you to get too carried away and almost become a separate campaigning political party because I think that would dilute your impact. You will get most impact when you touch on subjects that the politcal establishment seems determined to ignore such as the expenses scandal, the Lisbon Treaty, Iraq and immigration etc.

38 Degrees has been a revelation and it appears that a vehicle has now been found to make the political establishment actually listen to us, the thundering nuisances who pay their wages, pick up the numerous tabs for their numerous follies and charge them to do a job on our behalf.
Complacency though, is the thing to be feared. After such a good start, lets keep up the pressure and now that MPs and others have been hooked, lets reel them in and MAKE them listen to us.
All power to your collective elbows 38 Degrees, keep up the good work.

It's nice to think that the theives have been rumbled - the next step is to get them prosecuted and made an example of. Transparency is all we ask. We're all behind you.
Good luck to the team and keep up the good work.

There is no doubt about the depth of feeling, that things must change, we the general public have been taken for granted for far to long.
We need to use new technology to bring about rapid changes, in a rapidly changing world, and its important to start with our basic democratic rights.

Nothing to add

My main concern is that our political party chiefs don't appear to be treating the expenses scandal with a great deal of concern.
Why haven't the cheats been fired? How can an MP, of either party, get away with claiming £400 a month for food when Parliament isn't sitting?
I'm hoping that our membership grows to such an extent that we can force a decision on our concerns.

It allows others like me by adding my vote to 38 degrees to be effectively heard.
What I like about 38 they have gone that extra mile and make sure that MPs sit up and listen to the true feeling of the public.
And 38 makes sure that MPs have to rethink their actions to do their duty to the public and not be self serving.
Love to all those that support genuine common sense

Hi,
I was introduced to the site via a friend,and I have responded to a few of your conerns since then.
I sent your petiton to the Lib Dem MP for Ceredigion,who stated he agreed with RECALL.
I recived a long e mail on the topic from him.He appears to be one of the better members representing us.
Whilst I will continue to be proactive on you petitions,I may be more decriminating in future viz a ve those I send my MP,as he appears to be working hard on our behalf already.Any chance of being able to send petitions to specific ministers if one chose.
Also please do not allow the MP expenses fiasco rest in the long grass where MPs seem to have kicked it.

John

Congratulations on your first 10k members. I joined because I felt so frustrated with the MP'S expense row, the speaker of the house making use of taxpayers money to stop the expenses being in the public domain, the use of taxpayers money to become property speculators, need I go on?
History shows us that when government ideas shift too far to the left, there then becomes a massive shift to the right, there is never an equal balance and so it will go on. The fact that this Government can impose laws which allows them to delve into every corner of our lives and yet insist that theirs be private. There is no democracy in Britain!
No other country in Europe or indeed the world would put up with this, power goes to the heads of those who enter politics for their own gain. They forget who put them there and for what purpose. They are OUR servants and should be reminded each day that they are here to serve the public and their country. I understand that MP's have access to a 24hour bar and restuarant in the Parliement building?
Who pays for that?

I have no faith that this centralising, authoritarian government will give any support whatever to a citizens'convention on constitutional issues. It has too many skeletons in its cupboards - launching an illegal war, condoning torture, countenancing corporate bribery, throwing gazillions of public money at bankers without proper safeguards - to risk allowing decisive power to move away from the political elite.

We need therefore to prepare for the likelihood that the only citizens' convention we get is one we organise ourselves; and then we will need to organise ourselves to insist that its outcomes are accepted by parliament.

Congratulations, a splendid and worthwhile achievement.
My biggest concern is that it is taking so long for the official recommendations for the reform of parliament to come through, that when they finally arrive MP's will evade implementing the recommendations despite promises to do so.
Witness today that new speaker John Bercow is already refusing to reveal his salary thus revealing why he should not have been elected in the first place.
We should not underestimate the MP's resistance to change. They really think that they did no wrong.
We must battle for this above all else if we are to be honestly represented.
The next item, Education. Protect Grammar Schools. Protect fee paying schools whose existence provides relief for the state system and stops it being overburdened.
No, I went to a state Grammar School which, in its day, was terrible.

Excellent progress!!! However, I think that you're currently swimming at the safe end of the pool (apologies for metaphor) and the dangerous fish are waiting to be tackled. Expense fraud and pandering to lobbyist are embarrassing but rarely fatal to the organisations involved.
Once enough people are on board, you might consider tackling the 7/7 bombing coverup and the legality of having official "secret" organisations paid for by us and completely out of our control.

The campaigns are making a real difference, and its good to see that it's all making a huge difference. I joined on the first day, because after years of apathy, I realised that apathetic attitudes like mine were one of the factors that led to the MPs expenses scandal. Perhaps if we'd all spoken up sooner, they would have thought twice before making such outrageous claims on the public purse. However, better late than never (in my case), and now that 38 degrees is available as a vehicle for getting people together, our collective voice will not be ignored.

Charlie Brookner's Guardian blog says it all:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/ju...

and the fact that it's the 'most read' on their site is really telling too. I've been looking for an avenue to do something other than complain for a long time. In Switzerland and the US people can put issues on the political agenda if they gather enough signatures for it. I'd really like to see that in the UK: along with some form of proportional representation it would help to revive democracy.

great work lets keep going maybe we need 38 degrees to stand as a party for the next elections to shake it all up and some good

Congratulations guys - that's a real achievement.

My reasons for joining are many and varied but I guess really come down to a very deep dissatisfaction with the way that politics is conducted in this country and the appalling consequences it has for ourselves and the people we affect abroad. The war in Iraq is a shameful example of this.

We have a supine parliament of drones who are 'whipped' into line by party leaders to approve the wishes of a small clique of power mongers who themselves have been elected into power by a minority of the electorate owing to our first-past-the-post system. That is not democracy and we need to change it.

I am also horrified at the downright authoritarian nastiness of this current administration - the way that it tries to compel and hoodwink us into living increasingly idiotic and robotic lives incessantly monitored, observed and controlled. The way it uses a witless media to parrot its press releases and declare them 'News' is a joke.

There doesn't seem to be an aspect of our lives that this government doesn't want to control and that is ideologically, philosophically, and politically abhorrent to me. The surveillance society they are creating under the cloak of public concern is a national disgrace. The threat to our civil liberties now and in the future is very real and very frightening.

Talking of civil liberties - I should also mention the use of control orders for supposed 'terror suspects'. Forcing people to live under house arrest for years on end without recourse to trial or any evidence against them whilst denying them access to their friends and their family are the actions of a tin-pot dictatorship not a modern liberty-minded democracy.

It is however easy to show contempt. It is much harder but infinitely more worthwhile to take action. That's where you guys come in.

It is my belief that a great number of people in this country share similar concerns and an organisation such as 38 Degrees provides a rallying point through which to express those concerns in a highly vocal and articulate way. It keeps alive the possibility that we can affect positive change in this country.

Well done 38 Degrees - here's to the next 10,000!

We must push for proportional representation at every opportunity.
A few weeks ago there appeared to be a head of steam building. We must maintain momentum.

Keep up the pressure on behalf of pensioners who have been hit hard by the recession and whose pension is derisory.- those who saved are now wondering why they bothered . The money given to the gambling Bankers has cost every household in Britain £3000
When will we be reimbursed (with interest!) from the Banking Industry ??
Please look into MEPs expenses
The EU is said to cost every person in Britain £2000 per year.
Josie Herbert Chair Solihull Pensioners Convention

Simple, power to the people, corruption and Power go hand in glove, there is much to do! I think we all know the MPs expenses debacle is very small scale with regard to the endemic corruption industry in every state and global organizations. Heavily taxed majorities watch helplessly as their taxes are squandered and secreted away by the minority

A well informed (and angry) public can make a difference, more so with 38 Degrees. Keep up the good work. You will always have my support.

I am delighted with the progress so far. For years politicians have slick talked their way through and never listened to what people had to say.
If we can make them listen to what WE WANT and keep their greedy, sticky fingers away from the till we might just get away from "rip off Britain" and have a decent pariamentary system.

Keep after them.

HI - pleased to hear that there is another group lobbying on behalf of the Public Interest.
I'm not really a fan of lobbying to be honest with you, because the usual response from Government is " We're elected. you're not. Therefore we have a mandate. You don't"
To misquote Jello Biafra,.. "Don't critisise the Government. Become the Government".
I think it's actually a quicker route to accountability and FINALLY getting some PROGRESS on Poverty and Injustice.
Be unlike the Politicians. Be systematic and conscientious in ascertaining what that Public Will actually is.
I suggest a model...
http://cyrusam.livejournal.com/

I joined because of the hideous mistakes and the obscene use of taxpayers money which this government is making. This is destroying British credibility in the world and our armed forces are expected to scrape by while MP's "line their nests".

Now the latest is to exact money from pensioners to pay for being looked after in their declining years. I hope that this is taken up by 38 Degrees.

Where has the saying that most of us abide by, "My word is my bond", gone? Our"leaders" seem to have forgotten.

Contragulations ! You have achieved so much in so little time.
I am looking forward to your member numbers reaching the millions and seeing what other great work can be done.
I would love to see 38 Degrees getting involved in; better support for pensioners, stopping compulsory ID cards and impending microchipping, abolition of the Bank of England ... the list is endless.

Great work all of you at 38degrees! Thanks for making a change and thanks for giving all of us out here 'a voice'. Not been very big into complaining/campaigning before but I got my first letter from my MP in a House of Commons envelope last Saturday. Thanking me for my input and explaining his position etc. Wow, someone listened! Keep up the good work and I'm supporting you all the way.

Just a thought about facebook, in America a chap's useage of facebook was downloaded and used against him in a criminal court, I dont know the full details, just noticed it in passing on ATS.com
Which is why I'm not on facebook. [I hope!]

Being retired, and having served for 28 years in the Fleet Air Arm there are many things that this government are doing, and not doing which greatly annoy me, whether it be at home or abroad. You are growing fast and hopefully this will continue. As a lone voice it is hard to be heard, but with your help people like myself will be able to get our voices heard.

Please keep up the good work

I got involved to prevent some from having an unfair advantage.

Glad to see the site grow so quickly. When, not if, the politicos decide to ignore our sensible suggestions - I've experienced this already, the reason given being vague verbiage - then we can go to the media and blow the whistle on them. Keep up the good work.

Thats my comment and its true,take it or leave it!

Well good news !!! Apathy seems to be abound!!! its all bad news! never any constructive protest against simply the greed and dishonesty of many elected and non elected people on the very fabric of honest hard working people in the UK.
May you grow to question the ones that appear to be above the law by virtue of a rotten system. More will join because the aim for open system is simply unavoidable now! roll on the next election! keep up the good work?l

I joined out of sheer frustration!! In civvy street these theiving oiks would have been punished like like the criminals they are!Carry on with the good work and lets make it100k members.

I agree with what you are doing and I feel my extra name on our list helps lend more weight on the campaigns

I have to congratulate your Visionary Team for an INCISIVE campaign and to the first 10,000 citizens who are reminding these politicians that they are there to serve us i.e. our servants.

It will take time to CLEANSE the CORRUPT system as the GREED and CANCER is ingrained. We need a new "DNA" - new breed of politicians with the COURAGE to REPAIR our tainted democracy which spanned over 800 years.

How can we pontificate the spread of Human Rights and Democracy and Rule of Law overseas if we cannot get it right here? We need to LISTEN, LEARN and IMPLEMENT. Together we can do it since the SYSTEM cannot repair itself. Thank you.

Thanks for all your help with the Citizens Convention Bill. As of now, 122 MPs are now supporting our campaign for Parliament to give the public a role in sorting out our failed political system. That's a great result in a short space of time.

Good to know so many people are supporting us. I got involved because I was disgusted by the MP expenses scandal & the attitude most of them have. Its time Government was made to be honest & open. Together lets hope we can make that happen.

That really is progress!!

I joined early because I liked the idea of 38 Degrees,and have since been surprised at the amount of people that have joined,I believe that this is the genuine way to air our feelings and get things done,great work.

It's about time we as the people who are living in this country have the opportunity to have our say, they are our issues that affect us, they should not be dealt with behind closed doors. Others cannot help but listen and read about the things that you guys have done. Well done you!

I joined 38 Degrees after reading the Big Issue's campaign on stopping reposessions. I'm sick of feeling that the general public have no voice. The right to vote at general elections is fine but once a government is elected we lose any influence as to what happens in our country. After years of apathy I'm now writing to my MP on a regular basis and joining in with 38D pressure issues. Let's hope more and more people retain the anger that the expenses scandal stirred in them and continue to demand governance where the citizens of the UK are listened to and respected.

Great stuff, guys. I like that 38 Degrees is led by the members. And it's so good to having such clear impacts so soon.

I'd like you to explore how 38 Degrees could make a difference on climate change.

Doiong a great job guys and gels. I joined because I am fed up of the fiasco we call a government. Not only over the obvious stuff like our forces, mp's expenses etc but they are Robin Hood in reverse. I read that they are now going to stop Attendance Allowance for the sick and elderly.
Why don't they put them against a wall and shoot them. That would save money.

THIS GOVERNMENT ARE A DISGRACE
Hopefully 10,000 will get bigger and bigger and bigger and we will be able to sway opinion n a peaceful and graceful manner.

WELL DONE ALL

I really like what you are doing. You are helping to refresh and reinvigorate our democracy. Keep it up.

Congratulations on reaching this milestone. The MP's expenses scandal annoyed(s) me greatly and 38 Degrees became known to me at just the right time.

Well done fellas, you're doing a great job. It is high time that MP's realised that they are in office (NOT POWER) as representatives of the electorate, and that our views are paramount, not their own individual ones. The arrogant disdain by which they treat the people is astounding, abd it needs to be reined in quickly, we have had enough. 38 Degrees is the perfect way of making these overpaid, underworked politicians sit up and take notice.
Keep up the good work.

Hopefully, you will bring more to the fore, the underlying problem of all the Nation's 'ills'

From the Bank fraudsters, Hedge Funds, MP's, even the BBC hierarchy, et al.

The SINGLE word applied to ALL the above and many more, is,

GREED GREED GREED GREED GREED

Well done at 10,000 people start to listen.

I joined because I have been active as part of getup in Australia and have seen how effective it has been in making change in Australia. 38 degrees is just what we need here in the UK to bring about genuine citizen led policy change.

Great to know we are growing so fast. I was one of the first to join,because I was fedup with no one listening to us. its as simple as that.Alone we dont stand a chance, but together we can be heard and listened to, and they are listening, which is great.Keep up the good work.

Congratulations on reaching 10k. Next target: 100k. This will drop off the news agenda if we don't keep pushing, and our politicians would be very happy for the spotlight to move elsewhere.

I got involved because I saw the stuff you were doing on Iraq, and it felt like time to get of my ar*e and do something. And it worked!

I went on the Iraq demo a few years ago back when I was a student, felt really excited but then I just kind of gave up after that didn't work - thanks for reminding me that this kind of stuff does matter and it is possible to make a difference.

I find 38 Degrees a very interesting initiative, and am pleased to have been one of the first to get involved. I am sure there will be many more, and that I will still be involved when there are 100,000 of us.

Let's not forget about the pensioners. I'm retired myself and lucky enough to be reasonably well off, but many pensioners are left struggling particularly in winter with fuel prices what they are.

Congratulations to us all for reaching 10K. Some groups spend years and don't get that many. Good work team.
Now let's whip these greedy politicians into shape!

I joined because I was fed up about MP expenses and this seemed like a sensible way to do something about it. I like the emails, and the things you've campaigned on so far, and the fact you seem interested in what we all think.

Great to read all this feedback on what we've done so far - could we have more of that on the main web site please not just hidden away on the blog?

Great work guys, 10000 in 7 weeks is good going by anyone's standards. Keep it up, thats all my feedback.