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- Nick Clegg, Lib Dem Leader, accepting our recall petition: “where do I sign?”
We’re growing fast, and the more of us there are the more powerful we will become. Today we passed an important milestone, with the 10,000th person getting involved. This feels like something worth celebrating.
Together, in just 7 weeks, we’ve already had a real impact. For example:
- We’ve forced a Recall Law onto the political agenda, and are ready to push for it to be finally introduced when the moment comes. We’ve sent a clear message to MPs that we want real reforms including recall in response to the MP expenses scandal.
- We’ve stood together to say no to a secret inquiry into the Iraq War. We made sure our petition was seen by every MP on the day Parliament voted, adding to the pressure which changed Gordon Brown’s mind.
- We’ve been talked about in national newspapers from the Daily Sport and the Daily Mail to the Independent and the Guardian, as well as TV and Radio.
- We’ve joined forces with other organisations with similar aims to demand new rules to rein in lobbyists and new ways to have our say in political reform.
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- The 38 Degrees staff and volunteer team
We’re still new, and we’re still learning. What’s your feedback for 38 Degrees, as one of the first 10,000 to get involved?
What made you decide to join in, and what have you done since? What do you like, and what would you like to change? What would you like to see us campaign on in the future? Please leave your feedback below.
http://www.maturetimes.co.uk/node/9064
IK heartily recommend reading this article by Terry Waite to all.
OK, 10,000, big deal.
Was 38 degrees overdue ?
No, it had already happened here in Stoke in 2002 when we formed an organisation (democracy4stoke) which fought against the provisions of the 2000 Loc Gov Act (which sought to impose the US-inspired directly elected mayoral system on us).
We lost the first referendum but continued a watching brief until our re-launch in 2006 when we embarked on a campaign to get enough signatures (coincidentally, also 10,000) on a petition to force another referendum.
This was presented to Phil Woolas in January 2007 and we were told that the legislative prescriptions were “not set in stone”.
Alas, neither was that particular minister’s brief, and his replacement (John Healey) ignored that particular commitment.
Indeed, the Government had set up a ‘Governance Commission’, infested with ‘patsies’, which produced a report to broadly support the conclusions of the 2000 and the 2007 Acts.
However, we (D4S) persevered and persuaded the Council to hold a referendum last October – which we won by a 2:1 ratio.
This led to the creation of a ‘Transition Board’ to ‘oversee’ the recommendations of the Commission. This was (again) stuffed with people who would nod through the wishes of central government against those of the local citizens.
The abolition of the directly-elected mayoral system led to the Leader/Cabinet model which took over on June 8th with the Leader of the Tory/Independent Group (with 8 out of the 60 councillors) as Council Leader. And although the Government calls for more ‘diversity’ we feel that with no less than 8 political groups we are diverse enough ! (No-one is giving odds on how long this will last !)
Now a ‘consultation’ has just started, being conducted by the Boundary Committee, to determine just how many councillors we need. This will be followed by further exercises to give the number of wards and how many councillors in each (”cart”, “horse” and “before” come to mind).
Needless to say these figures will comply with the favoured option of whichever policy wonk at the centre is in fashion. However, it is too early to say whether the replacement of Hazel Blears by John Denham will make much difference.
Democracy4Stoke (D4S) is monitoring and submitting to these various processes but is finding very little attention from central government or the agencies which are tasked with conducting the exercise. This is despite the fact that we quite demonstrably speak for the people of the area and enjoy support from people of all parties and none.
We do take some inspiration from the situation in Blaenau Gwent where a successful ‘People’s Voice’ organisation has confounded the machinations of the faceless and unelected people who are really ‘in power’ nationally.
I have had to go on at some length to give a picture of what is happening in just one part of the country – but outside London – but hope that it illustrates the need for a wider-based organisation than we have been able to generate until now.
Perhaps 38degrees will satisfy that need and your approach will be discussed at our next meeting – and adapting the old slogan “think global, act local” may seem appropriate.
In democracy,
Mick Williams,
Convenor, D4S.
MISSION STATEMENT.
Democracy4Stoke exists to co-ordinate and support the efforts
of those (of all political persuasions and none) who seek to
establish a form of governance for the area which is
decent, honest and legal and which truly reflects
the wishes of its citizens.
…..informed, rational decisions ….
If we only have one MP, they might be a nasty one, esp in their attitude to inconvenient minorities, or to causes that are unheard in the media. There is every possibility that we can’t turn to them when in diifficulty. The eggs in several baskets, resulting from having a plural humber of representatives for the same seat, is important.
The real difficulty in making any reform in the political system is that it can only be constitutionally effected by the very politicians who have such a strong personal interest in leaving things as little disturbed as possible. With this in mind I suggest the following, which might at least have some chance of being accepted.
OUTLINE OF PROPOSALS FOR A REVISED METHOD OF ELECTION OF MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS
Edward A. Vickerman August 2009
Many authorities think that the present chamber is rather too large. It is here suggested that the number of members be reduced to 500.
The Boundaries Commission will divide the country into 400 constituencies of approximately equal population. At a General Election each of these will return one Member of Parliament by the “first past the post” system used at present.
Before an election the political parties will publish ordered national lists of general candidates. When the votes have been counted candidates elected will be deleted from the general lists. The so far unrepresented votes, that is to say all votes for candidates not elected, together with the majorities over the next candidate gained by successful candidates, will be counted nationally according to their party affiliations. The 100 as yet unallocated seats will be shared between the party lists according to their proportional share of unrepresented votes.
This scheme is a compromise between the present arrangements and full proportional representation. It ensures continuance of the “Constituency MP”, someone to whom any member of the population may turn when in difficulty. It also ensures that as far as possible every vote is worthwhile, even in a constituency where one party always has a large majority.
Notes
1. The Constituency MPs will bear an extra workload and might be recompensed accordingly by a salary benefit of in the order of £20-30 000. They could also be discouraged from undertaking outside employment by a limit to further earnings,
perhaps £20 000 would be appropriate here also.
2. General list members would be better able to understand life outside politics if they had outside interests and no earnings limit need apply to them.
3. Although not essential, consideration should be given to holding primary elections in constituencies, so that candidates there could not be dictated from a party’s national headquarters, which would have full control over the national lists.
4. This scheme does not consider the powers and respon-sibilities of MPs, such as the anomaly that some MPs can vote on issues which do not affect their own constituents.
Withthe election less than a year away, I feel we should be thinking about the questions which will best demonstrate a real change of heart amongst candiates. I would suggest that among them be, if elected;
1: The average full time earnings in Britain in 2008 was very little over £31k. Are you prepared to represent your constituents for the present MPs’ salary [of £64k+] and not to seek enrichment in the office?
2: Will you be prepared to answer to your constituents at frequent and regular public meetings throughout your term, and submit yourself to re-selection, or re-election, if called upon by a majority vote in such a meeting?
3: Do you support a referendum on Britain’s further or deeper involvement in Europe, including the adoption / rejection of the Lisbon [Consitution] Treaty, and be committed to acting in accordance with your constituents’ decision as expressed in such a referendum?
There is not enough democracy in our country. The voice of the ordinary citizen is always overlooked. The way the political system works at the moment means that most people’s vote does not count.
I signed on and got involved because I feel it is important for ordinary men and women to have their voice hreard – I do not think we should have gone into Iraq and I do not feel we should be in afghanistan, nor allowing teh US airforce to send drones over the Pakistan. I was directed here from Stop the war Coaltion to sign teh petition against holing teh Iraq enquiry in secret and I am currently getting signatures on that petition to Bring the Troops home. Keep up the good work – people united, we can never be defeated!
Well done on reaching 10K in 7 weeks. Keep up the good work, and let’s try to have 100K by the end of the year.
I’d like to suggest that 38 degrees focus its immediate campaigning actions on Parliamentary reform – with the objective of turning an ineffective democracy into a more transparent and responsive and accountable one. I’d also like us to focus more heat on financial services reform. Darling’s efforts over the last few weeks does not progress the need for stronger regulation of financial services (banks, private equity firms, mortgage companies, etc.) and effective curbs on corporate greed and risk-taking (which we as taxpayers and savers then have to pay for).
It is good to see a pressure group that hopefully make a change in British politics. The time has come for people to have their say in the decisions of politicians and make manifestos by them a contract to the people.I would also like to see on a election the elected MP take out a contract with the electorate in keeping within the standards expected of them.I find it a honour to be able to express my concerns with like minded people
I want to see every penny of MP’s expenses. If there is so much as one line blacked out it must be concealing abuse of public (our) money.
That is what I want 38 Degrees to focus upon please.
Being 79, an ex regular soldier, I worry about my country,England.Having Scots as PM,Chancellor etc and a Scot,Cameron, leading the opposition, my MP Desmond ANGUS Swayne is a Scot,I live in the New Forest. My MP has blocked my emails because I pester him. All I want is a fair and equal deal for my family. The Scots,Irish,Welsh all have or are going to have, free prescriptions(is it fair wealthy people in these countries have free ones,poor people in England have to pay)Free university education in Scotland, English young people come out with thousands of pounds of debt. All the present talk of care and the payment of same for elderly people.NO MENTION OF THE FACT THAT SCOTS GET IT FREE NOW. ENGLISH OLD PEOPLE HAVE TO SELL THEIR HOUSES. How can you trust these people to run our country, or to run the opposition party.All these people profess to believe in God but they do not believe in fair play.We the English have no voice in the press or TV/radio, We the English are called British,the others in this(Union)are called by their countries name ie if you live in Scotland you are Scottish.I DO NOT support the BNP but I am beginning to see why they are getting support. First of all we need a level playing field, where everyone is treated the same. I donn`t think the previously mentioned Scots can supply this.If you pray, then pray you are born Scottish,Irish or Welsh Not English.
A BIG THANK YOU TO THE 38 DEGREES TEAM for building this new and powerful community.
Together we can create the AVALANCHE required to bury the burnt out parliamentary system that the nation has suffered from for far too long.
All political parties and all politicians are now under an extremely large spot light. Their every move is being very closely monitored by an enraged nation. But all thanks must go to the disgraceful behaviour displayed by numerous members of the house that the media has brought to our attention recently. Without this self inflicted injury we would still be in the dark, nothing would be changing, the lies and underhand activities would still pass unchecked.
Now as a nation we have them all where WE want them along with their undivided attention.
We must give our full, unfaltering support to the 38 DEGREES TEAM, keep the large spot light firmly switched on pointing in the right direction and maintain the pressure and momentum that we have created so far.
REFORM THE HOUSE WITH MPs DEVOTED TO SERVICE
It is astonishing that without the freedom of the press the electorate in May 2009 was as ignorant of MPs expenses as the serfs of old. Public disgust has been unprecedented.
The 50 plus MPs who have done good work and deliberately and knowingly complied with the letter and spirit of the expenses system (Ref 1) deserve commendation and full support. What a great example for young and old alike. On the other hand the 450 plus MPs who deliberately and knowingly did not follow the example of the honorable 50 plus do not deserve trust or support and should pay the price for their greed by standing down, deselection or removal from office.
There is no excuse whatsoever for making multiple wrong claims. (Ref 2) One or two possibly yes, more than two wrong claims, no. This could be the criterion for standing down, deselection or removal from office.
No person in their right mind would trust or employ a greedy person known to have deliberately and knowingly ignored either the letter or the spirit of an expenses system. Why should the electorate?
From June 2007 New Labour headed by Gordon Brown has by incompetency been paving its way to loosing the next general election in 2009-2010. However Her Majesty’s Official Opposition led by David Cameron is helping to reverse this process by cronyism and paying lip service to public disgust over MPs expenses.
In 1653 Huntingdon MP Oliver Cromwell dismissed wayward MPs, addressing them thus “You have sat here too long for the good you do. In the name of God, go!”
Now as in 1653 the country is in need of dependable Members devoted to service to reform the House, effect good government and advise and help constituents. Current MPs, especially Party Leaders, being part of the problem are not the solution. Mass apologies and paybacks are debasing and no substitute for a record of transparency, honesty and truth.
Fortunately internet technology enables the electorate as a whole to act as a modern day Oliver Cromwell and cleanse parliament without fear or favour.
If you wish to help restore trust in Parliament, no matter which party or individual you support, lobby your local constituency party, family, friends and acquaintances to sponsor and support only candidates who have shown that they are capable, honest and hardworking.
At the General Election vote only for candidates who have shown themselves to be capable, honest and hardworking.
Do not support or vote for MPs who have not abided by the letter and spirit of the MPs expenses system. (Ref 1)
There are many capable people ready willing and able throughout the land who deserve and have earned our trust and vote.
If you agree, be a modern day Oliver Cromwell act and pass this email on to family, friends, neighbours, acquaintances, councillors and local constituency parties.
REFERENCES
(Ref 1) The Green Book – July 2006, Parliamentary Salaries, Allowances and Pensions Use of Parliamentary allowances.
Page 3 reads
“It is your responsibility to satisfy yourself when you submit a claim, or authorise payments from your staffing allowance, that any expenditure claimed from the allowances has been wholly, exclusively and necessarily incurred for the purpose of performing your Parliamentary duties.”
(Ref 2)
The House of Commons Members’ Reimbursement.
Form C1 (03/05) INCIDENTAL EXPENSES PROVISION.
An Authorisation and Declaration is to be made by members as follows: “I claim reimbursement of these costs which I incurred wholly, exclusively and necessarily in the performance of my Parliamentary duties.”
REFORM THE HOUSE WITH MPs DEVOTED TO SERVICE
It is astonishing that without the freedom of the press the electorate in May 2009 was as ignorant of MPs expenses as the serfs of old. Public disgust has been unprecedented.
The 50 plus MPs who have done good work and deliberately and knowingly complied with the letter and spirit of the expenses system (Ref 1) deserve commendation and full support. What a great example for young and old alike. On the other hand the 450 plus MPs who deliberately and knowingly did not follow the example of the honorable 50 plus do not deserve trust or support and should pay the price for their greed by standing down, deselection or removal from office.
There is no excuse whatsoever for making multiple wrong claims. (Ref 2) One or two possibly yes, more than two wrong claims, no. This could be the criterion for standing down, deselection or removal from office.
No person in their right mind would trust or employ a greedy person known to have deliberately and knowingly ignored either the letter or the spirit of an expenses system. Why should the electorate?
From June 2007 New Labour headed by Gordon Brown has by incompetency been paving its way to loosing the next general election in 2009-2010. However Her Majesty’s Official Opposition led by David Cameron is helping to reverse this process by cronyism and paying lip service to public disgust over MPs expenses.
In 1653 Huntingdon MP Oliver Cromwell dismissed wayward MPs, addressing them thus “You have sat here too long for the good you do. In the name of God, go!”
Now as in 1653 the country is in need of dependable Members devoted to service to reform the House, effect good government and advise and help constituents. Current MPs, especially Party Leaders, being part of the problem are not the solution. Mass apologies and paybacks are debasing and no substitute for a record of transparency, honesty and truth.
Fortunately internet technology enables the electorate as a whole to act as a modern day Oliver Cromwell and cleanse parliament without fear or favour.
If you wish to help restore trust in Parliament, no matter which party or individual you support, lobby your local constituency party, family, friends and acquaintances to sponsor and support only candidates who have shown that they are capable, honest and hardworking.
At the General Election vote only for candidates who have shown themselves to be capable, honest and hardworking.
Do not support or vote for MPs who have not abided by the letter and spirit of the MPs expenses system. (Ref 1)
There are many capable people ready willing and able throughout the land who deserve and have earned our trust and vote.
If you agree, be a modern day Oliver Cromwell act and pass this email on to family, friends, neighbours, acquaintances, councillors and local constituency parties.
REFERENCES
(Ref 1) The Green Book – July 2006, Parliamentary Salaries, Allowances and Pensions Use of Parliamentary allowances.
Page 3 reads
“It is your responsibility to satisfy yourself when you submit a claim, or authorise payments from your staffing allowance, that any expenditure claimed from the allowances has been wholly, exclusively and necessarily incurred for the purpose of performing your Parliamentary duties.”
(Ref 2)
The House of Commons Members’ Reimbursement.
Form C1 (03/05) INCIDENTAL EXPENSES PROVISION.
An Authorisation and Declaration is to be made by members as follows: “I claim reimbursement of these costs which I incurred wholly, exclusively and necessarily in the performance of my Parliamentary duties.”
Congratulations on 10k members (not ‘followers!),
How about following up a suggestion posted earlier and encourage all of the current members to recruit/persuade ten friends to sign up as well ! The weight of opinion thus demonstrated will be a powerful agent for change as the Obama campaign demonstrated.
The issues around political accountability as mentioned in many postings are the ones that need concentrating upon,this includes the undue influence of commercial interests via lobbying.
People power exerted via the internet is the way of the future,we need to be vigilant in its early stages that it is not hijacked by corporate or government interests.
So get out there and tell the people you know who are in sympathy with 38 degs. !
Well done; it is a great idea to harness the internet in this way and it is good to see that people can make themselves heard when they join together.
Change is long overdue and political reform, so that everyone can join in is necessary, true democracy, which technology makes possible, as you are demonstrating with this site.
I would like to see radical change, including abolishing the established political party system, (which has degenerated to the level of a chidish playground quarrel) and replacing the House of Lords with on online discussion and voting system so that on legislation that the majority approve is passed.
The very way that your system is working proves that this is possible and you have to be congratulated on the way you have set this up.
Thank you
Jane
So far as the House of Lords is concerned, don’t forget they do, at times, put the brake on a bill being rushed through, and can veto it. Agreed that they are an expense we could do without, but some sort of ’second chamber’ is not a bad thing per se.
Parliamentary Whips: marked an exam question in A Level on this topic recently, and it got me thinking. Obviously Whips have a function, to organise the business of the House, remind MPs to attend important votes and so on, and ALSO to toe the party line – this might be an advantage if rogue MPs were tempted to vote simply in their own interests or the narrow interests of their particular constituency, and not to the benefit of the whole country.
HOWEVER, to expel MPs for defying the 3-line whip votes is appalling, and makes a mockery of democracy; an MP has every right to vote a different way than her/his party wants if it is truly a matter of conscience – e.g. Robin Cook in the Iraq War vote. It might be a matter of strong disapproval by the party leaders, but it should NOT affect an MP’s career.
I think this system alone needs reforming, so that our MPs are not afraid to vote according to conscience on occasion, and need not risk their livelihood. That decision clearly took its toll on Robin Cook; he died of a heart attack not long afterwards. Nobody should be put under this kind of stress because they disagree with their party’s policy on a particular issue.
If the Whips were not so powerful, I wonder how many MPs might have felt able to vote against the extradition issue?
The bus pass should be valid wherever you travel in the British Isles. As it was a Government initiative all the bill should be picked up by central government too and none of it should be a burden on the local rate payer.
Until the extradition treaty with the United States is ratified by them we should not comply with their requests for extradition.
Congratulations. I would like to see far more tangible demonstrations of public disquiet regarding the state’s erosion of our human and democraric rights. In fact I consider it farcical that we perceive ourselves as living in a modern democracy. There are many countries throughout the world where the populace have far more freedom and access to information than we have in the UK. We are more of a police state than we are aware. Think about what we can actually do in our lives without the state enforcing us to comply to laws, rules and regulations. It’s far less than you think! I’m not saying that society doesn’t need some form of agreed codes but the prevalence of every aspect of our lives under state control and or surveillance I find incredibly disquietening.
I think you are doing a great job in informing those in Parliament of the feelings of the electorate who feel distinctly discounted. Well done for bringing the disatisfactions [of which there are many] of the electorate into focus.
Congrats on reaching the 10K milestone. My hope is that your site continues to grow, and that you (the organization) remain impartial and constantly strive to return real democracy to those for whom governments are elected. So many issues are needing tackled, and with the will of the people now needing to be heard as much as ever, this may be a way forward.
After learning what dastardly deeds these so called Public Servants are up to – especially their fraudulent use of Taxpayers Money – I felt it was time to act! There was a mention of your organisation in an article I read in the ‘Daily Mail’. I signed up that day.
I think that most right minded people feel let down, ripped off and fleeced by these money grabbing MP’s, and that they should all be arrested and charged for their crimes. I work in a Bank, and if I had behaved in this way I would be sacked!!
This scandal is by no means the only gripe, there are many others, and it’s only by standing together with others who have similar views that anything will change.
The man in the street cannot do this alone.
Well done, and more power to all our elbows!!
Keep up the good work.
Liz
Well Done!
We must however never get complacent,
as I write the gross injustices around the world and in our
own country continue to happen. We have a greatly flawed XPM –
Blair – slithering his way to possibly even greater power –
president of Europe no less, should we just sit back and let this happen?
I REALLY HOPE NOT!